Your friend draws dirty pictures for Playboy and gets paid? Cool. ;o)

I think these questions apply mostly to freelancers and solo designers.

Luckily, I have a monthly check coming in constantly. We do feel the down-turned economy.

Overall I think people just blame "the economy" too much and it's just a cop-out excuse for being lazy.

I took a job with an in-house design team. Freelance work was getting scarce (as opposed to three years ago, when it was like picking fruit) and I bought a house, so I needed to work somewhere.

Every time I get frustrated and start to look for another place to work, I think of everyone I know who is unemployed (and until recently everyone I knew socially was). While I feel like I'm wasting my time, selling myself on the cheap, wrecking my wrist and eyesight for a company I don't love... hey, at least I have a job.

It might not be so bad if this is all I had ever known.

Oh crap, did I just get all mopey? Sorry.

-R

Armin, I think it’s also fair to say that some people feel trapped in their jobs too, because of the marketplace. I’ve heard a couple of stories recently of people working at firms that have been so greatly downsized that they are doing a lot of work that they would never have agreed to take on if it hadn’t been grandfathered to them via the economic crunch.

Given that, what do you do to keep going and stay creative? How do you stop the grind from changing the work you want to do? Or do you just excel at “grind”? Life hands you lemons, etc.

damn... just read Rick's comment. Rick, are you still pursuing freelance work or how are you dealing with the disconnect?

Something IS going on... not sure what.

Last year I sent about 100+ resumes within 2 months of graduation, and I did not get but 2 interviews, both in the Hudson Valley, nothing in NYC or any other major city I applied. And, though this may sound a bit 'cocky', I know I am a good designer, at least compared to those people I have gone to school with, and worked with.

I dont know if it is a question of the economy... or the fact that you have to know someone. No one from my graduating class, with the exception of myself, found a design job unless they knew someone already. And so many people, with no design background at all, get design jobs. I think that has a good amount to do with it all.

One of the only reasons I found a decent job was the '60-hour-a-week' job of finding a job!!

I do think that it (the economy) is affecting pay rates and salary increases, they just arent coming the way they were when I frist started school.

And like Eric said,... I am doing work here now (mostly Help content and the like) that I would have never done, or been asked to do, a year ago when I started.

I think it’s also fair to say that some people feel trapped in their jobs too, because of the marketplace. I’ve heard a couple of stories recently of people working at firms that have been so greatly downsized that they are doing a lot of work that they would never have agreed to take on

eric, I would have to admit to being one of those trapped by their jobs. I find myself both looking forward to my desk (since I actually have one) and all the stuff on it that needs to be done, while at the same time knowing that we are overworked, understaffed, and unsure as to what to do next due to the changes in the economy. Many a day comes when I am doing work that I would normally not take, things that I don't like to do, or I know I am not the best suited for the task. For now I know my options are limited but hopefully that will change soon. In the meantime I will have to materialize my true creative impulses at home with painting and photography.

I think I've been lucky to have a FT job and a couple of *very* loyal freelance clients (one of whom is a salesperson who has *tons* of clients herself). My FT is pretty steady, but it doesn't turn out much portfolio-worthy work, so I have to hunt down the freelance and put together self-promo materials to satisfy my creative urges.

As far a job searches go, in my town (Kansas City) if you want to get a studio or agency job, it's practically a requirement that you know someone. I've put my feelers out recently for a different job and I was surprised to find out how many people I know who are "connected". It's like playing Six Degrees of Separation, only it's more like two or three.

For folks doing freelance, how do you promote yourself? I've done some print pieces and I'm listed on a couple of sites that bring me some decent traffic:

Firmlist

and

Creative Hotlist

Are there other (popular) sites like this?

Sarah B-

Not that it applies to you directly, since you have a gig, but sending out one MILLION resumes won't get you a job. No offense, but sending a resume is a cop-out. So is clicking on "Apply Now" buttons, looking at job boards, etc.

Do some research on places you want to work. Figure out who to contact, and then call them. Show up in their lobby with your book and leave-behinds and your resume. Ask for an informational interview, where you can ask questions about the work they do. Maybe try leaving your book on review days.

Granted, I'm not working anywhere great right now (do I miss Sterling Group? Hells yes I do), but I got this (and my dot-com gigs, and everyplace else I worked for that matter) by going in an making myself known, not by emailing a resume.

Just my cranky opinion.

-R

Thank you 'Mr.Cranky'(R)

I completely agree - funds made adventures like that impossible in the college years, and those are tactics that I wish I had employed.

I just find it frustrating (complaining 101 to begin) that all my 'other' friends, with business, computer degrees did not have to go to that extent. I certainly might now! And now that I am 'older and wiser' - I even know more people with 'connections' in the biz.

It stacks up to age and experience at many levels.

Thanks so much,

Sarah!

sarah - i'm curious if you took one of those two jobs or how you finally ended up with the job. And maybe more importantly, what are you doing about going after that dream job you wanted to pursue while still in school?

...

I have a really wonderful fulltime job that doesn't nurish all my creative needs and found that by forcing my way into the freelance market that i could be much happier with the day to day. I supplement those activities with writing and taking an active interest in this particular community.

though my freelance jobs are mostly for los angeles based entertainment companies, i find that i still have to create promotionals in order to push my portfolio in the direction that i want it to go.

Eric.

Well, the one job interview was at a cruddy little newspaper, not much cash, and not much room for growth, that was the first interview, and I was about ready to just take....groceries on credit card, not good. I really did not want a position like that, though there is nothing wrong with newspaper design, I like the fast pace, there isnt much room for creativity. And, it would have been a step back, since I had done an internship with a much better paper the previous summer.

The same day, thank the lord, I received a call for the position I did take, the one I am at now. I was more exicted, and i could/can grow as fast as the company does here.

I landed the job because of my knowledge of many aspects of design, my work experience besides design, and well, my personality. And, I rock! jk

During school I wanted to pursue everything and take on the world, which, I still might deep down inside.

I cant say there was one "dream job" I was looking for. But I knew I wanted something that got me out the door in the morning, and my juices flowing. I do want to be able to design all types of things, print, web and multi-media - so that I can "mix=it" up a little. I would love for the position to require me to make things work together and certainly develop big challenges.

I dont think there is a particular place I would like to work, design firm, in house dept. etc. or a particular company. And location, I am not sure about that either (could depend on love a bit)

Like you, I do some freelance jobs, mostly print, some web, outside of work, to keep a creative outlet as well build my porfolio.

To sum it up, there is a lot out there to do, and I just want to gobble up a part of it!!

I moved to Los Angeles 5 years ago with no job, and immediately found a position in an ad agency. Six months later I was fed up with it and sent out three resumes in response to ads...which landed me a job at a design firm. A year later I was laid off and found a job at another design firm two weeks later (I swear).

Then another year went by and I was laid off again...but by then everything had changed. I was without a full-time job for 6 months. Now I'm working in-house. There are 4 other designers here, all with the same level of experience as me, all here for the same reason as me and they all hate it as much as I do.

Every time I get frustrated and start to look for another place to work, I think of everyone I know who is unemployed

That's exactly what I do. I run into former co-workers who tell me that they're not working at all. Some have had their hours cut back to part-time. Some are freelancing/ temping. So, I put my creative energy into other things...like taking some night classes at Art Center to move into other areas of design.

I just think that things are bound to change. The economy already seems to be leveling out again, so I'm pretty optimistic.

Is that true about the Bay Area? I'd really love to move to San Francisco.

David,

i think everybody is hopeful that the financial rush in consumer goods and advertising for this autumn will result in people loosening the purse-strings for additional staff.

How are the night courses at Art Center and what/who are you taking? i graduated ACCD in illustration in 95.

...

more on topic, a friend of mine who is a brilliant photographer (editorial photographer) is presently working in bicycle shop two days a week because he refuses to go back to work as a desk guy at a stock agency. it's a curious choice but he's so much happier for it that i'm very glad for him.

"Overall I think people just blame "the economy" too much and it's just a cop-out excuse for being lazy."

Armin's a die-hard republican, eh? ;o)

Actually, I know nothing about economics, so I'm not one to talk. Although the only reason I have a gov. gig at the moment was due to the layoffs 2 years ago. Not that I'm complaining or anything...

Despite being a large part of my life, design ISN'T my entire life, and doesn't encompass all my creative endeavours. I like to sing, I like to write, I like to draw. I maintain a weblog and personal website which is my playground. I also like making design projects for friends for gifts, like posters and cards.

I, too, work in-house, and I'm actually quite lucky because unlike most people, I actually like my job. OK, so it's not as wonderfully lucrative as say, doing creative freelance jobs (which I do some on the side, tho I haven't picked one up for a couple of months), but I'm lucky enough to be surrounded by people who value me and my work. And I like the regular paychecks and benefits. :P

But yah, it's tough in our industry. My boyfriend works as an assitant manager full time at a restaurant while he does some freelance websites on the side. I also have a friend who's taken a photography job despite the fact she's a designer. And more stories of other classmates... a lot are really depressed. :( But I hope that the industry'll turn around and start respecting us and hiring us again!

>Armin's a die-hard republican, eh?

No, I'm just lazy.

I can't help but agree with the idea that economics is being used as a crutch. There is a lot of work out there. Not enough to go around for each and every designer and that's not a bad thing. It means you actually have to *gasp* try to get work creatively and intelligently... and not just mass email resumes.

Personally, I quit (!) my FT job in January and consider it one of the best moves of my career. At some point deciding to stop making other people you don't respect look good and see what you're really made of is the only way to move ahead creatively and professionally. If you want to be in this business it seems as though now you have to be better than ever at all aspects of this business and not just be able to sit in front of a computer and slowly make pretty pictures like your college professor instructed you to in a sheltered environment.

In regards to the loss of prestige, I would say that is the number one problem affecting designers. This problem also would be solved if there were less designers as the glut of the willing us cheapens the whole thing. Clients who don't want to pay more for good quality think (and rightly so) that they can post their project on craigslist and have 1000 resume's in their inbox the next morning. This just sends the wrong message and perpetuates the whole problem, IMO.

If we all tried harder or simply quit, I think the people left would be better off...

Okay. You quit first. =)

OK, so maybe that was a bit of a rant, but really...if there were half as many of us the world would be a better place. Supply and demand all all of that...

there absolutely are many fewer jobs right now. i know way too many really good, experienced but unemployed designers. i am %90 sure i have my job now because of how young (meaning how cheap) i am. on talent and experience i would have been beat out by one of the 20 people they interviewed (out of the 400 resumes they received) for a posted position.

No, I'm just lazy.

:D

Work is for suckers, anyways.

Eric...

The best class I took at Art Center was Letterform Design with Adele Bass, who was one of the best teachers I've ever had... getting an A required almost absolute perfection and she really pushed everyone to their limit. Annie Huang was an excellent teacher too. I also took web design (which was just information I could have gotten out of books— not really worth the money) and UK Communication Design, which was fun.

There's a few others that sound interesting— Advanced Brand Identity is one I might take. We'll see.

By the way, the only thing I really hate about my job is the way we're dictated to by a CEO who thinks he's an art director, and who encourages all upper management to behave the same way. The pay, benefits, regular hours and lots of time to post on sites like this are all pretty decent. ;)

about the loss of prestige: i've long held the belief that the concept of 'quality' is eroding in our culture.

David: best of luck with the branding. Let me know how it develops. Sadly, most of my design instructors passed away over the 90s. i still have good/horrible memories of redoing and redoing Caslon by hand in rapidiograph.

ooo....we did Bodoni....all style...over and over, and yes, by hand, and only 3 years ago!

Worth is an interesting word. Work and worth are often tied up in business; I find that so interesting. I have spent many, many years defining myself by what I do do (and what I don't do), and you know what? As soon as I am sure of one thing, or have accomplished something else...it changes. As a culture we "never have enough" and are always yearning for the next big thing, success, project, opportunity, whatever. I think by nature, that is part of the whole Darwinian thing. You sit still...someone passes you. What I do feel now, after 20 years in the design business is this: don't settle and do not take no for an answer. You want a job with someone? Rick is correct: don't just send a resume, call them, stop by, do something outrageous. Learn EVERYTHING you can about the company you want to work for, really consider what you can offer them that is unique, find a compelling reason for them to want YOU (and it can't be just because you are a good designer, I bet everyone reading this thinks the same thing!) and go after it like your life depended on it. Because in some ways, it does. How much do you want something? Ask yourself: are you operating out of power or out of fear in your pursuit of what you want? So often we retreat from what we really want because we are so afraid of being rejected. If you have done everything you can to make a job happen, tried every which way to not take no for an answer and they still reject you, get over it. So what if you are rejected? Move on. Put your energy and passion into finding something else.

I think that is the big aha: your energy and your passion. Sarah said it: it is a full time job to get the job of your dreams...but it is also a lifetime process. After twenty years, there are some days I am crazy-gaga over my job and other days when I want to jump out of my seventeenth floor window. But often what I bring to my job defines what I am getting out it, and that, as I said, changes all the time.

As Graham said, and as I often quote: do what you love.

Lastly, and more tactically (sorry for the long post, but I am in school right now and have only this small window right now to get this all out) the job market is getting better. The economy is much stronger, and in NY many of the big firms are flourishing again. The closer your work is to touching the consumer, the busier you are likely to be, as the consumer indexes are all higher, people are buying things again, and packaging is booming.

After twenty years, there are some days I am crazy-gaga over my job and other days when I want to jump out of my seventeenth floor window.

Are you sure you want to quit? Jump / Get back to work

=)

-R

Late to the discussion -- but just one quick point: AIGA.

That's how I stay in touch with my past, present, and future.

I don't have anything to complain about, but even the most successful designer out there is feeling the strain of a down economy. Owners are nervous about the recovery and nervous for their employees. No one is smug and content.

To keep my energy up, I also teach part-time. I love it. It reminds me of why I love this profession in the first place. And damn what other people may think of you or what you do. Just remember how lucky you are to do something you love.

Tan. Once again� total bad-ass. Thanks for piping up �. I was really hoping people would open up with what they do to stay positive and on target in a really oppressive time. It would be easy to make a lot of bad choices with as competitive as the work force is right now.

There are a number of activities I do to let off steam but I am very, very thankful for this forum as it’s filled with people who reinforce the best qualities of design aesthetics and practice. And, importantly, not so much for certainty but for lack of absolutes, where the blanks get filled in with questions rather than concise hokum.

Debbie, thanks for taking time off from polishing the apple. Hope Harvard is going well� Come home, we miss you.

one wonders if today's economic straights aren't a well deserved reminder for us (especially those who had the good fortune to be involved in the booming economic times in the 90's) to live simply? within ones means and vis a vis a more sustainable life? ride your bike ... go easy on the air conditioning, eat out less ... etc. etc.

and remember that most of us lucked out to be in the very small top percentile of the world's population in standard of living even if things are a little leaner - and god forbid you have to "sell ice cream" to make ends meet.

>I was really hoping people would open up with what they do to stay positive and on target

You are right, I forgot to touch in on this subject. Obviously for me, Speak Up is my main outlet, it keeps me sane, it allows me to talk about stuff that 99% of the world doesn't give a fuck about, it keeps me challenged 24 hours a day — I'm always thinking. In fact, I can't even remember what my designery life was like before Speak Up, how was I able to cope? I can't express how much Speak Up gets me going, spiritually, emotionally and professionally.

I have never had many artistic talents, can't carry a tune, can't hold a brush to save my life and my poor hand coordination has made piano and guitar lessons pretty fruitless. But hook me up to a mouse and a keyboard and watch the hell out! In recent months I have discovered how much I enjoy writing (design, short stories, whatever), so that is one new way of expressing myself that I'm trying to explore and pursue. My wife is very artistic, so when she paints or does her cool artsy stuff I feel artsy by association.

And yes, thinking about all the people who are unemployed keeps me humble.

I have a question about a subtheme here--is freelancing considered a poor cousin to working full-time? Certainly it depends on temperament, goals, and motivation as to which way of working suits each individual, but in the general view of the profession, I get the sense that freelancing is considered temporary, a means to get by, and a little sad. Whereas a steady job is a sign of solidity and some kind of career-clarity.

I don't see why it should be this way. FT jobs are hardly solid and stable, as many of our experiences show. And freelancing requires the full range of skills: graphic, promotional, financial, and disciplinitudinal (look it up, oh no, don't--it's not a real word). You also have to develop a sense of cost-analysis accounting, and who doesn't need a little of that?

I confess I cringe every time someone asks me "How's the freelancing going?" I'm self-employed! I have a payroll! I want to say. I'm as much a freelancer as Stefan Sagmeister! (What delusions of grandeur! I only mean that he's self-employed too.) I quit my last job in order to do this, but still people seem to think eventually I'll be updating my resume.

One benefit of freelancing, I think, is it teaches patience. In times like these, patience is kind of a business asset. Staying solvent, managing to have evenings and weekends free (I have heard of such things but not around here), being persistent about getting work: these things require discipline and patience when you're freelancing or self-employed. There was an article in The New Yorker back when I started out on my own that basically said "Businesses that start in the leanest times and survive have an excellent chance of growing and lasting." The example in the article was, I think, the Wall St Journal, which was founded during the Depression (I may have that wrong, but it was some well-known financial journal). My point is, in order to stay motivated when clients are griping about every dime, I keep one eye firmly on the big picture, the road ahead, the horizon. I don't think about or do less design or planning, or don't shuttle my creative energies off into something else. On the contrary, now is the time to get ready for when the economy swings back around.

My $ .015 (adjusted for inflation).

Good topic, Eric. Welcome to the hive.

>"How's the freelancing going?" I'm self-employed! I have a payroll!

Sam , forgive my ignorance, but outside of taxation is there a real difference between the two? Isn’t it mostly perspective. I agree it’s pervasive, but as a freelancer you are still required to have an office, pursue clients and regulate your income.

That said, in freelance I consider myself mostly as a design temp called in for a specific purpose, usually stylistically (as I suck on the software end of things). And at the end of the day I still go back to the day job. So my drive is different.

>Good topic, Eric. Welcome to the hive.

Thank you so much. I was a bit worried that the subject matter was too dark. And does this mean i can now refer to Armin as the queen bee?

Re the philosophy about starting a business in troubled times -- couldn’t agree more. I think I read the same article. If you’re forced to think lean and get in the habit of constantly acquiring more business then you’re more likely to maintain that drive when you’re cruising Park Slope in your Benz.

Back on topic: Armin and AK thanks for the perspective. We are indeed lucky to be pursuing that which we love to any degree.

Oh, I was speaking more to the difference in perception between full-time and self-employed, and the SE is the ugly duckling.

But in regards to the difference between freelancing and self-employment, the differences aren't that major. They may even be mostly ::shudder:: semantic. My own take is, freelancers are always an army of one, pay self-employment tax, more than likely work at home, may subcontract to other design firms, are likely to handle smaller jobs. I am tempted to say "Freelancers do it on the side" but that would be lame. Self-employed designers may have other employees, are incorporated (and therefore pay corporate tax and unemployment tax), are more likely to work out of an office (myself excluded), and have a general philosophy of being in business for the long-term (or as long as possible), with notions of growing to some degree.

But in terms of going from project-to-project and having to sustain a cash flow that is all too elusive at times, freelancers and the self-employed are in the same boat, paddling up the same brown creek, if you know what I mean.

No topic too dark! Fear not the Pantone 433!!

>does this mean i can now refer to Armin as the queen bee?

Ahem, I go by Big Daddy around this parts of town.

perhaps apropos this discussion, i offer a quote from the Art Chantry interview that Christopher May conducted for Speak Up:

Chantry: What I can ask for my 'art' is devalued dramatically. Be honest, who really needs to hire me when they can spend much less money and do it themselves? Currently, I am getting rates below what I was charging when I started out almost 30 years ago. In addition, I now have to support $20,000 worth of equipment and upgrades.

Given the context of this discussion (hard times), maybe the difference between freelance and self-employed (as aptly described by Sam) is more than just semantic.

Freelancers who rely on contract work from other creative firms (as opposed to working directly for the end-buyer), will find less opportunity in a market like this because there's more competition for less work. Most designers currently looking for work also seem willing to accept freelance assignments. Surely, that diminishes opportunity for the pool of dedicated freelancers. Small shops (like mine) may also be disinclined to farm out anything when big projects are scarce and margins tight.

I confess I cringe every time someone asks me "How's the freelancing going?"

I agree wholeheartedly, Sam. I feel like they're asking me to list every job I have going. "Well...um...this one's at the printer; I'm in the middle of a design phase for this; and I wish I had time to watch Dr. Phil every day." I even get the same attitude from some other designer friends. They really assume that I'm just waiting for that right opportunity to come along. Guess what? I'm in the middle of that opportunity, and it's up to me to make the most of it. I quit a real job with real job security and a very real paycheck and benefits to do this. I'm happy to subcontract with other design firms. I'm happy to have my own clients as well. I'm simply happy to be designing on my own terms. If the work isn't good, then it's mostly my fault and I accept that this is how I will learn to be a better designer and a better businessman.

And in the end, it all does come down to what Tan� said: I love being a designer and am thrilled that I'm able to be one on a daily basis.

According to this site, all of us freelance folks can be filthy rich....it's sooo easy!