If I were famous... I would be English, wear black and use the word "art" more often when showing my work. Then I would memorize Paul Rand quotes (sans pro-client stuff) and show up late for everything. Nah, thats been done. I'd create a new me: Tibor balls, Niemann brain, and Sagmeister heart.

Sprinkle in a lap dog and Supon Phirlyhiut haircut to keep em guessin.

If I were famous, like Snoop-Dogg famous or Mohammed Saeed al-Sahaf famous, traveling the world to design 2-color postcards and tri-fold brochures for major corporations and minor governments, with Pantone colors named after my children and collecting dividends on the Potts Convert-Swatch-to-Scrath-n-Sniff filter for Photoshop 21, I'd disappear. Go into hiding, become a myth, turn more Salingeresque than Thomas Pynchon.

Then slowly, mysteriously, old Zip disks (really old, like the 40mb ones) of my school projects would appear on eBay for astronomic amounts of money. VH-1 would run a Behind the Bezier Curve special. The Post Office would commission every member of the AIGA to design one pixel for a stamp in my honor. And then the backlash would begin...

I would be English, wear black and use the word "art" more often when showing my work. Then I would memorize Paul Rand quotes (sans pro-client stuff) and show up late for everything.

I'm not famous - and that is what I do today. Doesn't work. Perhaps because.... hmm.

If I were famous I'd only wish I wasn't. But if I were rich and famous then that would be a different thing alltogether. I'd make movies.

First thing I would do is walk into David Carson's office, spit on his Mac, write "grid" on his desk and tell him he can erase all the e-mails I have sent him. Although he probably already has done that.

I would forget about all of ya'll. But I would nod graciously when you come to shake my hand or ask for an autograph on my 8 spot color + CMYK biograbook.

I would rename the AIGA to AVRtDW (Armin Vit Rules the Design World.)

I would find Sam and get back the pixel I was commissioned by the USPS.

Wear nothing but white jeans and black turtlenecks. Complain about design and how much I hated it and that everything but my work was useless graphic wallpaper. Wait I think someone has already does that. ;) Oh... and get someone else to design everything for me.

i would take out a full-page ad in the new york times proclaiming massimo vignelli untalented, uninteresting, and utterly irrelevant.

not that all of it is true. it's just that i know he'd freak the fuck out, and that's fun to watch.

I would:

Wish I could come up with a way to make some money off my fame. ;-)

If I were famous, I'd take a year off from clients, allowing for experiments only. Then I'd certainly become a caring designer.

Reading the above has tired me out. If I were famous I would take a nap right now.

>i would take out a full-page ad in the new york times proclaiming massimo vignelli untalented, uninteresting, and utterly irrelevant.

By far the best use of fame and fortune.

Oh... and get someone else to design everything for me.

Kris! You're breaking my heart here!

I would make my own amusement park and zoo, marry Lisa Marie Presley and pretend to have have sex with her ....wait. shit..

nevermind.

I would definitely thorw big tantrums in meetings if clients would say to make the type bigger. Maybe even walk out of the door, slam it really hard and wait outside for them as they realize what a horrible horrible mistake they have commited.

I'd buy some cheap property in the middle of nowhere with a big old barn and throw in a letterpress and some silkscreens and stuff. Then I'd rely on my fame to draw burned out designers to my "retreat center" to reinspire them from their complete dissolutionment with graphic design and the world in general. And they'd pay me big bucks to let them get ink on their black turtlenecks and white jeans.

I would make my own amusement park and zoo, marry Lisa Marie Presley and pretend to have have sex with her ....wait. shit..

I snorked the cookie I was eating, reading this entry. It wasn't pleasant.

Do you think fame gets you any new work - or is it your ability to do the work, first and foremost?

>Do you think fame gets you any new work

I think it can only help. There is a saying in spanish "Hazte fama y hechate a dormir" which loosely translated would be something like "Create a reputation and sit back." Meaning that if you are a famous designer people [businesses] will want to get in on the action and be part of the cool. Case in point: David Carson. If he wasn't as famous or as trendy as he was in the 90's do you think Armani, Pepsi or Microsoft would have sought his services? 'fraid not.

I understand that it can't help in the short term - building a reputation to be able to benefit from it further on. But that only will last for so long. Right? You sort of have to keep turning out 'tricks' in order to maintain that 'fame'.

Case in point: David Carson. What is he doing these days? I was never a great fan so didn't keep informed.

Why say "if"?

Make it happen.

>> Walk into David Carson's office, spit on his Mac, write "grid" on his desk

Hee hee, Massimo Vignelli would be so proud.

yeah. but then he'd see my ad the next day and he'd get all spittin' bitter.

:)

>Case in point: David Carson. What is he doing these days? I was never a great fan so didn't keep informed.

Exactly. Famous=trend. You run the risk of being forgotten. Rapidly.

...i would live in a world of fear and paranoia, constantly worrying they will expose me for the fraud i really am.

David Carson is hardly forgotten. He may not be as famous as he was 8 years ago, but fames dwindles. Ask Seymour Chwast, Lou Dorfman, Tom Canarsie, Samuel Antupit, Rick Tharp--hell, ask Steve Tolleson.

I would just like to say for the record that David Carson kicked fucking ass. I don't care what you say about his aesthetic or his personality--the man changed how designers saw the page. Like Miles Davis and Bill Evans changed jazz. Oscar Wilde said that clouds didn't exist until painters painted them and made us to see them. Carson goes down in the history books--backlash notwithstanding--Jennifer Sterling does not. I'm talking about his influence, not his specific style. The man cracked shit open. This is the legacy of David Carson. Lay-outs, typography, pacing--it's all looser because of him. Space can be more subjectively used. I don't design like him and never did, but I still am glad he's done what he's done. Like the kids say, mad props y'all.

Yeah, I'm feelin' fiesty today, by jickity!

I agree with Sam. Whether or not you like the man or his work, it's hard to deny that Carson's effect on graphic design has been significant. In the same vein as April Greiman, David turned the conservative nature of design on its ears and deconstructed long-held taboos of typography.

I first met David about 14 years at a conference in Aspen. He was just an attendee -- and his fame was still growing. David's great ego had not taken over yet. I knew him by his work on Surfer and Beach Culture, but I was surprised at how knowledgeable and well-versed he was with design in general. And believe it or not, he was quite humble. At the same conference, I met the late Saul Bass -- which in retrospect for me, marked a milepost between two generations of design.

I've since seen Carson many times in subsequent years, and have heard the horror stories that have gotten him blacklisted with AIGA chapters across the country. But it hasn't diminished the impact and brilliance of his work.

Dis him all you want, but the fact that we all know of his work speaks of his influence and legacy.

That brings up another question -- do you have to be an egomaniacal asshole when you become a famous designer? Or are there more Tibors out there than Carsons? Or is it an inherent trait that with fame comes ruthlessness and detachment?

Sam, I don't think anyone disputed Carson's influence or contribution - but perhaps that his 'fame' had worn off a little.

mGee's Why say "if" made me pause.

To stop myself from being a complete twat - I'll just be an incomplete one here.

The pursuit of fame is a different ball game than first and foremost being good at what it is you love doing. Like, I am sure a bunch of do, I know/of a handful of 'famous' people and the reasons why they are mostly not because of their dedication to becoming famous. The reasons include being the first at something or other, dying on a mountain, inventing things and being the best in their respective fields.

The only people I know where fame helps - but is also not necessarily enjoyed is obviously the entertainment industry.

I don't think that some of the designers we talk about could have done the work they're famous for if they simply focused on being famous. From what I can see, the intrusion of public scrutiny and criticism is a tough thing to bear, from being interrupted when you're eating out with family, to having friends say that a friend of a friend needs a job/signed photo or wants to do an interview to having every piece of work or action you make publicly critiqued somewhere. If you want to volunteer for all that - then great - go to it. But some of the designers we mention or discuss here, don't particularly like or want that.

I know I'd be a little hesitant to make all that happen if I had a choice to still do the work I enjoy, be great at it, and not be famous.

For me this is slightly ironic, because when I first saw Felix posting on here, I remember exclaiming rather loudly to my girlfriend - "Fuck me - Felix Sockwell is posting to Speak Up" as I was a fan of his work. But now that I've gotten to know him on Speak Up.... heh.

Point taken, Damien. Armin said "forgotten" which I took to mean that his influence was forgotten, and I got all huffy. Just makin' trouble.

Regarding the public scrutiny, I saw Bill Cahan going into a restaurant last summer here in New York and I was about to follow him in and introduce myself and then I stopped and said to myself, "What the fuck? He's just a graphic designer!" Plus he's like a foot taller than me and I was scared.

>> That brings up another question -- do you have to be an egomaniacal asshole when you become a famous designer? Or are there more Tibors out there than Carsons?

Oh I wouldn't put Tibor on the saintly end of the spectrum. I think that's a myth (started by him, most likely)--Tibor was most definitely a major ego and/or asshole from what I've heard from people who knew him. He's one of my main design heroes, but I don't feel the need to also believe he was the sweetest guy in the world. He drove his employees like cattle (what I wouldn't give to have been one of them!).

Ego is, I think, one of the most important forces behind things getting done. For that it's incredibly necessary. People who say "Oh you're just doing that to show off" should be ignored like the fearful unproductive bystanders they are.

and double "heh"!

what i find interesting (and appropriate) about Carson are the idiots who followed his career (and copied it). he represents that neccessary blemish; all style no concept. personally, i dont think he started what he ended up taking credit for. his deconstruction legacy of crudeness began a few years preCarson in the form of punk rock postings. either way you teeter, he was at the right place at the right time and I'm glad he turned "good taste" on its head.

style vs concept will always be an interesting forlude. remember duffy vs tibor Print '93? tibor hit the mat. and glaser vs. beirut AIGA Journal '97? glaser: down for the count. its fascinating how famous designers can look like incredible dipshits.. yet maintain legitimacy.

ahh, theres hope for us all!

I would demand every designer to use Adobe InDesign and place QuarkXPress guides underneath the leg of my rocking desk.

what i find interesting (and appropriate) about Carson are the idiots who followed his career (and copied it)

Rick Poynor and Vaughan Oliver are among the Carson fans you've termed idiots. So let's not generalize, shall we?

But I see your point.

To get back to your original topic:

If I were (design) famous and independently wealthy, I would travel and take a series of mundane jobs for a while. See how the other side lives. You know, operate a crane, or drive a bulldozer. Sell hotdogs at baseball games, or make change at a turnpike tollbooth. Live as a sheep herder in Montana, and wander from town to town.

But once in a while, someone would make me really angry, and the gamma rays in my body would turn me into a giant green monster. After I saved the town in a destructive rage, I'd have to leave before Steven Heller, who's chasing me, finds me.

Yea, that's what I'd do.

Rick Poynor and Vaughan Oliver are among the Carson fans you've termed idiots. So let's not generalize, shall we?

I thought I was fairly specific - Carson, though neccessary, sucks now and sucked then. Poynor? Oliver? Now look whos generalizing! their work has content and style.

as for your lowbrow, andy kaufman epitaph, i hear ya, but some of us who grew up serving those hotdogs dont need (or want) to crawl back under the septic tank.

>But once in a while, someone would make me really angry, and the gamma rays in my body would turn me into a giant green monster.

Tan's reference here to an oddjob handyman was to David Banner/the Hulk, not a "lowbrow, andy kaufman epitaph". You missed it entirely Felix.

Ladies, please! Take it down a thousand!

take a series of mundane jobs for a while

er, not really. after he achieved fame, kaufman bussed tables at a diner here in NYC. i thought it was a fairly unmistakable referrence. sorry.

Ladies, please! Take it down a thousand!

hey, all's good with me. As far as I'm concerned, we just disagreed about Carson. And I don't really care whether or not Felix gets my references -- I don't understand many of his.

besides, kaufman's cool too.

I dont know Doyle personally, but I've heard just the contrary. Sahre went to work for him, so he cant be all that bad. And... he did send some work my way...

my vote for "down to earth" fame is David Carson. Met him at church.

>my vote for "down to earth" fame is David Carson. Met him at church.

Now you're just egging me on, Felix. Or are you mocking Sam? Either way I'm not biting this time, bro.

Doyle is an amiable, soft-spoken guy. But like all great designers, he's probably a little more intense than his employees. Maybe that's where the rumblings come from.

Craig Frazier's another famous nice guy. And not to be sexist, Lucille Tenazas is also beloved by many.

a) isn't an egomaniac

b) isn't a cruel slavedriver

c) has a sweet reputaton with employees as well as clients and vendors

My first hand experience of the following puts them in the above categories : Clement Mok, Bill Moggridge, Bill Verplank, Sumner Stone.

Apparently Armin is 'a' and 'c' but not 'b'.

>Apparently Armin is 'a' and 'c' but not 'b'.

a) You shall adress me as Mr. Vit and not look at me directly c) comprende lowly human-being?

Yeaaaaah... see? It doesn't come to me naturally.

b) I'm just not that type Damien. I know what you keep telling me and I guess eventually it will happen.

I will not be mocked! West coast seems a step or two behindon the snarkiness.

Sahre worked for Doyle for like 15 minutes, which might tell you something.

That his 15 minutes are up?

Shoo. Hes still kickin it, b. We'll see you (and he) at Fresh next week, aye Mr Potts?

No, I meant it might tell you something about working with Doyle. Sahre's excellent, and a nice guy too.

I may or may not go to Fresh Dialogue. It'd cost me the non-member fee and I get all antsty around the starpower of those things. I should go. Mom would tell me to get out of the house and go. Anyone else going?

Sam's comment was

"...fame dwindles. Ask Seymour Chwast, Lou Dorfman, Tom Canarsie, Samuel Antupit, Rick Tharp--hell, ask Steve Tolleson."

Hey Sam. How can I be a "has-been" if I was never a "been"? I'm having a little trouble with you putting my name in the same sentence with those whose shoulders I only wish I could stand on. I am honored.

Ha ha! I need to be more careful about running my mouth off in the blogosphere. Back in May it was a little different 'round here--I think I was a little oblivious to the reality of the people we were talking about. Such cavalier days...

Rick, there was a poster of yours hanging at Portfolio Center when I was there--the story of a printer making suggestions and ultimately redesigning your (I think--maybe it was a client's?) business cards. It was hi-larious. Being on display at Portfolio Center--that's famous, ain't it? Glad you dug up that thread.

Not to keep adding to Mr Tharp's confusement, but I have always been a big fan. Still to this day — not so dwindling.

Not a huge Tharp fan, tho I do love the Blackbird logo and restuarant signage.

I think whats interesting about graphic design design "fame" is talent factor. Tharp (and may I add Glaser) have more charisma than would lead one to believe in print.

WHO IS THIS AZURECHICKEN ON EBAY AND DESIGNADDICT.

I DON'T KNOW! BUT YOU MIGHT WANT TO CHECK THIS OUT.

Please people, lay off the Caps Lock.

If I were famous for design, I would retire.

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