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I have had bad service in the past: At restaurants with rude waiters, on the phone with neglectful customer representatives, in cabs with plugged-to-their-cell-phone reckless drivers, and in a myriad other establishments. I never complain to the manager or a higher authority, I just don’t have the patience or the time — a well-intoned “screw you”, plus a mean stare with my bushy eyebrows and knowing that karma will eventually have its way is usually satisfaction enough. But for one in five adult consumers in the U.S. this is not enough: Just in 2006, 1.2 million complaints were handled by the Better Business Bureau (BBB), the “leader in advancing marketplace trust”. With a new logo and tagline, Start With Trust, the BBB is hoping to extend its equity as the most reliable and trusted source of information when it comes to filtering good from bad businesses. The most public manifestation of the BBB is their “Seal Program” where businesses, previously scrutinized and approved, have the honor and privilege of sporting the seal — which, I have to admit, has proven the biggest enticement for further complaining anytime I see it on a store’s entrance or web site — but is usually lumped together with signs that indicate that Discover cards are accepted. So the BBB’s campaign will hopefully result in a higher appreciation of this seal, both by consumer and owner. A task perhaps facilitated by a fresh new logo. Gone is the onion on top of the widest torch ever created and the chunky serifs that formed some interesting negative spaces in the endless BBBBBBnes of the logo. And in is a new take on the torch — which may be, along with hands, one of the hardest things to draw as a logo — that now looks (and smells) like a well-brewed stew of Excellence, Integrity, Teamwork, Trust and Respect (the BBB’s values) simmering in a soup plate (unless someone sees the handle of the torch, and don’t tell me it’s the second B because, even though it is, it visually doesn’t work). Replacing the old Bs are a new triad of sans serif Bs that feel a little better suited for the job and less distracting in their repetitiveness. I’m not sure this was the best direction and execution of the logo, but as a replacement to a logo that had been in use since 1962, this may be a better option… And I’m not one to complain.
Thanks to Bart L. O’Dell for the tip.
Jump to Most Recent Comment
Od’s comment is:
Does anyone else see a hot bowl of soup?
On Oct.21.2007 at 02:22 PM
Ryan’s comment is:
I was thinking smelly dog food.
On Oct.21.2007 at 02:50 PM
Gene Cowan’s comment is:
Hmm.
I think I would have taken this redesign as an opportunity to get rid of the whole torch thing. It says absolutely nothing to me about integrity or trustworthiness; it simply harkens back to those outdated 1950s seals that adorn charity gumball machines in barbershops. Meaningless in the context of the organization, just a little piece of clip art denoting officialness.
Ty’s comment is:
I agree with Gene, I don't really see a compelling reason to keep the torch.
On Oct.21.2007 at 03:30 PM
Guillaume’s comment is:
Why do the flames spell SS anyway?
On Oct.21.2007 at 07:39 PM
Tim Chambers’s comment is:
The new torch and "S" flames reminds me of the recently (September 2005) redesigned logo of CSUS (now known as Sacramento State):
C-Lo’s comment is:
Hot soup, Smelly Dog Food, How about potted plant? I see that first. Whatever it is, the logo is NOT a torch. Also I am not a fan of the lettering. Needs w wider font or something. I am not a fan of thin, tall fonts.
On Oct.22.2007 at 08:53 AM
josh Emerson’s comment is:
I actually thought the old design was pretty good. I also like the new logo. I think it is a good step forward in design. It looks clean and modern. I know where people are seeing a hot bowl of soup, or a stinky dog food, but despite that I think that its still pretty successful. Perhaps they could have put in a little nubbin at the bottom to solve the "soup" problem. However, that may look completely strange too.
On Oct.22.2007 at 09:01 AM
Armin’s comment is:
> I think I would have taken this redesign as an opportunity to get rid of the whole torch thing.
> I agree with Gene, I don't really see a compelling reason to keep the torch.
I can't speak for this case in particular, but in general when redesigning an identity that is a specific thing (a torch, a bird, a house, a panda, whatever) you have to ask "If I take this away, what am I giving them in return?", and 99% of the time you will find the answer is "I don't know", so extending the livelihood and equity of the association of that thing with the public is usually not a bad direction. But, of course, when it comes to something as abstract as "trust" things can go in a million directions, and questioning the torch is valid.
On Oct.22.2007 at 09:07 AM
Nick’s comment is:
Guillaume’s comment is:
Why do the flames spell SS anyway?
SuperSport doesn't that make the most sense?!? haha yeah there has got to be a better way to display a flame besides the negative food connotations
On Oct.22.2007 at 10:01 AM
agrayspace’s comment is:
While I did not design the logo, I did have a very hands-on involvement in the entire brand redesign process for the BBB. So I can tell you this.
For better or for worse, the thing that kept the torch around was MARKET RESEARCH. The research told us that an alarmingly high number of people recognized the Better Business Bureau but had no idea what they did. It also stated that an alarmingly high number of people recognized the torch as a symbol of "trust" and as an associated visual with the BBB.
So for a company that has been using a torch for a very long time, it did not seem responsible to just ditch it all together. It's the easy answer to just say get rid of it.
And as stated above, redesigning a torch aint no simple task and I did not envy the person tasked with it.
Also i have to say this is the first time I have heard the comparisons to a "bowl of soup".
On Oct.22.2007 at 10:01 AM
CJ’s comment is:
>Also i have to say this is the first time I have heard the comparisons to a "bowl of soup".
People are gonna make all kinds of weird comparisons with abstracted images. Somebody should write a book of famous/successful logos and comments people have made as to what they thought it looked like.
The torch is needed because (well, research) what ELSE would you put in a BBB logo? The first thing that comes to mind is a torch... admit it! Why would you ruin that brand recognition?
I think the torch might be a bit too simplistic, but it's not two S's and I don't think it looks like the Sacramento State torch either (Sorry Tim).
A decent redesign.
Now they need to do something about their website. Yech.
On Oct.22.2007 at 10:19 AM
BWJ’s comment is:
Didn't "an alarmingly high number of people" vote for Bush in the last election too?
Just sayin.
MARKET RESEARCH is the corporate world's way of protecting themselves in lieu of a failure, and that's about all it's worth.
Sorry marketing majors.
On Oct.22.2007 at 10:20 AM
agrayspace’s comment is:
actually no, a fairly marginal number of people voted for the shrub. but point taken.
personally, I think it's foolish to overly herald or condemn market research.
its information.
use it intelligently but don't ignore it.
On Oct.22.2007 at 11:21 AM
stock_illustration’s comment is:
I think a refresh of the old torch combined with a new font might have been a better solution. This new steamy bowl just doesn't say "torch" and I think it's too far visually from the old logo to leverage any brand recognition they had going.
On Oct.22.2007 at 11:43 AM
Ben Leivian’s comment is:
Is the Better Business Bureau accredited by the Better Business Bureau?
On Oct.22.2007 at 11:58 AM
BWJ’s comment is:
I do appreciate where it has come. It seems very rare today to see a solid, one color logo. I'm tired of people trying to add "dimension" to an identity with gradients, bevels and shadows.
This harks back of the early day's (the good ol' days) of corporate design (i.e Pacbell, UPS, PBS) albeit still in the the early stages and without any wit. It feels very unbalanced. It's bottom heavy and the type seems chunky and unconsidered.
Maybe it's not to late to do some fine tuning and add some elegance before a million vinyl door decals are printed.
On Oct.22.2007 at 12:21 PM
5000!’s comment is:
The most public manifestation of the BBB is their "Seal Program" where businesses, previously scrutinized and approved, have the honor and privilege of sporting the seal — which, I have to admit, has proven the biggest enticement for further complaining anytime I see it on a store's entrance or web site
I know this is semi-off-topic for the blog, but just a heads up that you probably shouldn't put as much trust in this as you do. The BBB's system of scoring and reporting favors the member heavily, and they don't report anything that was resolved in a court (so a BBB member can have a pristine BBB record if all of their complaints were handled in court). I can vouch for this personally thanks to a nearly disastrous run in with a crooked accountant that proudly bore the Bureau's AAA rating.
On Oct.22.2007 at 01:12 PM
zedzedeye’s comment is:
Personally, I think the old Serif "BBB"'s would go nice with the new torch. The Torch flames are actually Serif-ed!
On Oct.22.2007 at 04:03 PM
Chris’s comment is:
They're giving Campbell Soup's "Mmm, mmm good!" campaign a run for their money with the BBB hot soup logo.
On Oct.22.2007 at 04:28 PM
John’s comment is:
"actually no, a fairly marginal number of people voted for the shrub. but point taken."
Actually no, a majority of voters voted for Bush. 51% = majority. How quickly (or desperately) some forget.
On Oct.22.2007 at 06:35 PM
5000!’s comment is:
Actually no, a majority of voters voted for Bush. 51% = majority. How quickly (or desperately) some forget.
Actually, no. It depends on which election you're speaking about. Don't forget, a majority of electoral votes does not equal a majority of voters. How quickly (or desperately) some forget.
On Oct.23.2007 at 01:32 PM
John’s comment is:
Not to turn this into an off-topic snit-fest, BUT...
Results for the last election (which is the point of this comment):
http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004/pages/results/president/
Bush: 286 electoral votes, 51% popular vote
Kerry: 252 electoral votes, 48% popular volte
Bush was elected by a popular and electoral majority in the last election.
On Oct.23.2007 at 01:47 PM
OMEN’s comment is:
I definitely think this is a step down. Rather than nitpick the fact that its weak composition, spacing, color, etc., I'd like to say that I'm more put off by the overall personality of the logo. Although I suppose is could be considered "dated" looking, I think that is an appropriate character. It's an interesting asthetic. The new version is completely devoid of character. It says nothing and looks to me like a first round pull.
On Oct.23.2007 at 02:46 PM
Ben’s comment is:
I'm with agrayspace. The logo, in all it's golden ratio glory, is definetly a step in the right direction. Kudos to the designer and the client for not straying too far from the classic original.
On Oct.23.2007 at 05:58 PM
Kyle Hildebrant’s comment is:
I love this new mark. I think it's a perfect progression. My one complaint would be that the base of the torch doesn't line up with the left side of the middle B. I think that should have been optically aligned. Other than that, great mark--and keeping the torch was a good idea with regard to brand equity.
Kudos.
On Oct.23.2007 at 06:17 PM
Garrett’s comment is:
Eat It All
Mark’s comment is:
I don't know, but my brain seems to want to put the triple B's between the flame and the handle, it standed out much more better like that.
I'm not comfortable having the B's at the bottom it makes me think that the consumer is at the bottom in importance sorry but it does.
On Oct.23.2007 at 08:06 PM
agrayspace’s comment is:
Not to turn this into an off-topic snit-fest, BUT...
51% is a marginal number. Meaning 1% is the narrow margin upon which it is the greater quantity.
The "overwhelming majority" spoken about earlier was in the high 80%. Thus the need to take it more seriously than we should the legitimacy of this preseidency. It's what would be referred to as a "mandate".
Thanks. MGMT.
On Oct.24.2007 at 09:41 AM
Kaz’s comment is:
Gone is the onion...
Well, they made a hot soup out of it... :D
I like better the new one, but it's like it's missing something, maybe the handle of the torch?
On Oct.24.2007 at 11:15 AM
Von Glitschka’s comment is:
Danny Bonaduce could be their spokesperson?
On Oct.24.2007 at 04:13 PM
DesignMaven’s comment is:
Vonster:
The Partridge Family???!!!
PURE GENIUS!!!!!!!!
AGRAYSPACE!!!!!
FROM THE HANGING JUDGE!!!!!!!
THIS IS A TERRIBLE REDESIGN (period).
BBB Identity borders on ree-diculous! Waste of client time and money and contributes to hurting the credibility of what we do.
WORDS OF WISDOM:
The Public is more Familiar with Bad Design than Good Design. It is, in effect, conditioned to prefer Bad Design, because that is what it lives with. The new becomes Threatening, the Old Reassuring.
Paul Rand
-------------------------
DM
The Hostile Takeover of Corporate Identity
On Oct.24.2007 at 06:01 PM
DesignMaven’s comment is:
Kyle:
Mutual Feelings on the Love and Respect.
You're MISGUIDED???!!!
Differences of OPINION is what make the World.
I'll GUARANTEE you nobody that works in Identity with a Reputation will think this Redesign is NOTEWORTHY.
Neither Bass or Rand would Anoint this Identity noteworthy of N EE THING except Desecration and Blaspheme. Are you kidding me???!!!
I'm the PURVEYOR of BASS and RAND Ideology.
Aside from Arm Me Compadre from ME' HE-CO PRAISING THIS. More importantly, Praising the NFL Identity, ReDesign and CHRYSLER.
The Concave CHRYSLER Identity is nothing new. CHRYSLER in 1962 was at times using a Convex Identity within the Negative Space. A friend former Designer with Lippincott & Margulies just sent me the CHRYSLER Pentastar Facilities Manual and Design Sense Special Issue, CHRYSLER Pentastar identity, 1964.
Nothing new with the CHRYSLER Identity. Although, my Alligiance is with the Original.
I think both you and Arm should RECUSE yourselves from Further Posting on Brand New.(LOL)
The aesthetic of the Identity conveys nothing. Albeit, the Solution about 40 yrs OLD.
If I can talk about J. Abbott Miller's, Redesign of MIC/A.
Referencing the Naming Solution. J. Abbott Miller is a Design SUPERSTAR and a Designer I Revere. I can certainly talk about this BBB.
Which actually means in Certain Circles BARE BACK BLOWJOB.
Rob, whom I consider a Friend, and very Talented Designer, should've KNOWN THIS!!!!!!!!!
First and Foremost Alphabet Soup Identities are Passé. They fell out of Fashion in 1969.
The Marketing and Communication Team whomever they were with Rob. Should've Pitched discontinuing the initials and doing something aesthetically more creative with the Name.
Aside from the issues with Alphabet Soup, Naming. Please don't give me that Crap the initials were already in use.
Identity Designers have to learn how to SELL, GENERATE MEANINGFUL IDEAS that Solve Communication Problems, Properly Leverage the Brand for Financial Growth, Captures Hearts and Minds.
BBB, BARE BACK BLOWJOB doesn't cut it.
Times have Changed and so has Linguistics and meaning of words and Letters.. Marketing and Communications Professionals, and Identity Designers should be aware of this.
The United Negro College FUND IDENTITY is a BETTER Aesthetic. Albeit, it being a RELIC and AS OLD as Methuselah.
Please tell me what's GREAT ABOUT this Identity and Naming Solution continuing to be a Diatribe.
Are you Defending it because it's your work???!!!
I think I'll call BBB to see if I can get a BARE BACK ...
DM
The Hostile Takeover of Corporate Identity
On Oct.24.2007 at 08:41 PM
DesignMaven’s comment is:
Pardon Me.
BBB is Universal Language for BARE BACK BLOWJOB.
DM
The Hostile Takeover of Corporate Identity
On Oct.24.2007 at 08:50 PM
Danny Tanner’s comment is:
After some research, I've found the proper and popular abbreviation for bareback blowjob is BBBJ.
A search for "BBB" on google/yahoo produces pages upon pages of better business bureau sites. Given the history of the institution, it would seem "BBB" has been a commonly used acronym for the better part of a century. "BBB" has grown past a mere acronym and actually turned into a symbol. Those 3 letters are a symbol of acceptance, trust, and approval. They don't simply stand for the name, they embody everything the organization stands for.
One of the strengths of the previous mark was that it worked well as a seal of accreditation, one of its most prominent uses. The previous mark had a central orientation, was balanced, & fit well in a circle. The torch did not overpower the "BBB," but complimented it. In this new rendition, the BBB is lost in a jumble of blue mass, playing back-up singer to giant fire. It feels more like a campfire.
Difficult to read, poor application in seal use, lost meaning, woe is the Better Business Bureau.
On Oct.24.2007 at 10:40 PM
West’s comment is:
I think the "bowl" would have passed had they decided to make an actual flame of some sort. The dull-nubbied wank-bars on the update are really ugly. Sharper, more intertwined flame shapes would've upped the "modern" credit as well.
On Oct.24.2007 at 11:26 PM
DesignMaven’s comment is:
Danny:
You talking about GOOGLE a Search Engine.
I'm talking about Real Life.
The "J" is not used Linguistically by anyone, you're completely out of the loop.
I'll Guarantee you if Focus Group Research Testing were Done and you were TO HOLD UP A SIGN and ask anyone what BBB Implies, Represent, or Stand for, 9 out of 10 people would tell you ORAL SEX and the Better Business Bureau would never be mentioned.
Your Google search is accurate to a Fault.
Most people looking for BBB aren't going to search Google.
They already know where to search and the meaning.
Who the Hell calls Better Business Bureau,
BBB ???!!! Nobody!!!!!!
I just called the Operator and information (411) and asked them to give me the number to BBB.
The Operator said three (3) times. Name, City or State Please.
There is No Equity Built in the initials or Symbol.
If the Operator doesn't know the acronym BBB Nobody does.
BBB also has another sexual connotation, see if GOOGLE will give that information.
The Point I'm making NAMING or THE NAME is the Most Important Characteristic of an Identity.
With Names the 1st order of Business is that you Do Not OFFEND ANYONE or CULTURE.
Albeit, sending the WRONG MESSAGE or Communication.
Identity Design is not a Logo Problem, Symbol Problem, Marketing Problem or Design Problem.
Corporate Identity is a Communication Problem where Design is SECONDARY to Semantics, Meaning Linguistic Content and Context.
In Identity Design, Perception is everything.
DM
The Hostile Takeover of Corporate Identity
On Oct.25.2007 at 12:01 AM
DesignMaven’s comment is:
To be Fair and Honest.
The Operator didn't know what Business I wanted until she typed in BBB. Then Better Business Bureau Shows Up along with another Business in D.C.
I asked the Operator if she knew what Business I was Referencing by using the initials BBB
she quipped she did not.
I explained I was a Corporate Identity Consultant doing Qualitative Analysis with Operators on the initials BBB.
She stated Nobody uses the intials BBB to request Directory Assistance for The Better Business Bureau. The Name is used not the initials.
DM
The Hostile Takeover of Corporate Identity
On Oct.25.2007 at 12:18 AM
zedzedeye’s comment is:
soooooooo... "B" is the new "BJ"?
On Oct.25.2007 at 12:53 AM
John’s comment is:
Continuing the entirely off-topic snit-fest:
51% is not as "fairly marginal" as 48%. It's also better than the 43% and 49% of the popular vote that captured the White House in '92 and '96, of which '96 was said to be a "mandate" as well. I don't know where 80% comes from as a benchmark, since only three candidates since 1900 have won as much as 60% (Coolidge, Johnson and Nixon, respectively). There is nothing illegitimate about the current presidency, whether one judges it to have been granted a "mandate" or not.
On Oct.25.2007 at 11:34 AM
Danny Tanner’s comment is:
DM: 99% of the time I would agree with you on this.
Usually, I believe an organization should NEVER have an acronym as its logo unless that is what they what to be called (i.e. ABC, MoMA, etc). AND the organization better have a damn good reason for wanting to be that acronym. In many cases, an acronym can detract from the stature of an organization, or confuse the public about what/who they are. The best acronym tend to be ones that are pronounced as words, not individual letters (i.e. MoMA, RISD, MICA, SAM). Sometimes an organization will want an acronym to hide what they are (i.e. "KFC," to hide the word fried), and sometimes its just because an organization's name is insanely long (which means they should probably be renamed).
This specific case seems different.
As you have helped to state, no one calls the Better Business Bureau the "BBB." No one even know what "BBB" means when verbalized. Say it, "Bee Bee Bee"... it sounds ridiculous. But thats just it...
No one has ever pronounced the acronym. It's such a wild jumble of "B"ness that is almost a given it should not be verbalized. BUT visually those three, same, letterforms packed together to are so distinct, memorable, and have enough history behind them that they act as a symbol like the Westinghouse "W." It's stylized, distinctive in form, but not in verbiage. I wouldn't call an operator and ask if I could be connected to "W" if I was trying to call Westinghouse. The "W" is a symbol, the "BBB" is a symbol. We don't say "Bee Bee Bee," but we know that grouping of B's stand for the Better Business Bureau.
In this new rendition, it may have served the organization well to include the name along with their "BBB" symbol (this might solve your quip DM). Perhaps, if the mark had maintained a central orientation, the organization's logo could have actually turned into a circular seal (rather than having a separate seal application). The name could have rapped around the edge, similar to the PGA (not LPGA) logo. Maybe they could have even added their date of establishment, given their near century of history. These elements would have visually reinforced their purpose and mission, giving them a greater degree of credibility to unfamiliar onlookers, while maintaining their current visual equity.
On Oct.25.2007 at 11:49 AM
Kyle Hildebrant’s comment is:
DM:
Were going to fued on this one. I have a layover tommorrow, if I can get wi-fi in Denver, I will take some time to address your points.
BTW, where can I sign up for the BBBJ? (I think you were missing the "J")
"IF you don't know what a ZJ is, you can't afford it."
Sorry.
On Oct.25.2007 at 01:01 PM
Kyle Hildebrant’s comment is:
The points Mr. Tanner made were 100% accurate. He took the words right out of my mouth. This is a case of "BBB" being the symbol, not the signature.
On Oct.25.2007 at 01:07 PM
Ryan’s comment is:
All that really needs to be done to this is to give the torch a handle. The lack of a handle is what makes the whole lockup seem like a bowl of soup/smelly dog food.
Some people are complaining about the "serif-ed" flames. Quite frankly the serifs, in my opinion, are actually good. They resemble a thick slab serif font, which reeks of officious flavor. The lack of a slab-serif font for BBB was probably a mistake, though, since they feel a bit separate from the flames. I think the elements should feel like they belong in the same "world," and right now the flames and the BBB seem like they come from two different sides of the tracks (Don't Stop Believing by Journey just popped into my head).
Anyway, the biggest issue, as I said, is the lack of a handle. Just a simple triangular shape underneath the BBB could wrap this whole thing up and solidify the mark.
But...at least it's not the new Wacom logo.
On Oct.25.2007 at 02:31 PM
DesignMaven’s comment is:
I have absolutely exhausted my post on this subject matter.
Doesn't matter who agrees with whom, you're both wrong.
Allow me to explain.
Kyle:
The points Mr. Tanner made were 100% accurate. He took the words right out of my mouth. This is the case of the "BBB" being the symbol. not the signature.
Danny Tanner:
No one has ever pronounced the acronym. It's such a wild jumble of "B"ness that is almost a given it should not be verbalized. BUT visually those three, same, letterforms packed together to are so distinct, memorable, and have enough history behind them that they act as a symbol like the Westinghouse "W." It's stylized, distinctive in form, but not in verbiage. I wouldn't call an operator and ask if I could be connected to "W" if I was trying to call Westinghouse. The "W" is a symbol, the "BBB" is a symbol. We don't say "Bee Bee Bee," but we know that grouping of B's stand for the Better Business Bureau.
Kyle, I'm absolutely suprised at you. I thought you knew more and I THOUGHT I TAUGHT BETTER.
I guess not.
Let me take you out to the Wood Shed.
Danny, PAUL RAND's Westinghouse Identity is a Monoseal. A Monogram or initial within a shape or seal like form.
Identities such as, GE, General Electric, PPG, Pittsburg Plate Glass, and Maytag are excellent examples to name a few.
A Seal is a name or group of words rendered in a cohesive form. Identities such as, New York Life, Ford, Exxon, are excellent examples to name a few.
The B's are not a Symbol they are they are an Acronym Substitution for the name.
Your argument, "If I were trying to call Westinghouse. The "W" is a symbol, I wouldn't call an Operator and ask to be connected to "W" if I were trying to call Westinghouse.
The "W" is a symbol, the "BBB" is a symbol. We don't say "Bee Bee Bee," but we know that grouping of B's stand for the Better Business Bureau."
That's where you're EMPHATICALLY WRONG.
The Better Business Bureau is Listed as "BBB".
The Better Business Bureau List the Acronym in Directory Assistance.
"BBB" is what I asked the Operator to search and two business came of in Washington D.C. that incorporate the initials "BBB"
You Made my Point. "BBB" is not a symbol it is an Acronym and/or Monogram.
The Sole Reason "BBB" does not work as an Acronym and is not enunciated like other Superior Identities, AIGA, IBM, CVS, A&P, ABC, BB&T, ywca, iTT, ESPN, CNN, NBA.
There has not been any Communication and Marketing Dollars Spent by Better Business Bureau to embed "BBB" in the Populous Mind to make it Synonymous with the Name.
The aforementioned Corporations, and Organizations have Spent Millions of Dollars to embed their initials in the Public Minds Eye.
MIC/A, RISD, are not totally successful Acronym Identities.
Nobody outside of the World of Art and Design know what the Acronym mean.
MoMa and SAM are a little more Successful.
The Legendary J. Abbott Miller has just Rebranded and Renamed Seattle Art Museum SAM.
How successful is the Original SAM compared to J. Abbott Miller's SAM for Seattle Art Museum.
Dictionary Definition.
ac·ro·nym (āk'rə-nĭm')
n. A word formed from the initial letters of a name, such as WAC for Women's Army Corps, or by combining initial letters or parts of a series of words, such as radar for radio detecting and ranging.
In this case "BBB" is not a Legitmate Acronym because it doesn't formulate a Word that represents the company,
such as:
HUD, Housing and Urban Development
EPA, Environmental Protection Agency
LOC, Library of Congress
DOT, Department of Transportation
WMATA, Washington Metropolitan Area Transit Authority
Without the Torch Symbol the Series of "BBB"s would be a Monogram.
Dictionary Definition of Monogram.
mon·o·gram [mon-uh-gram] 1. a design consisting of two or more alphabetic letters combined or interlaced, commonly one's initials, often printed on stationery, embroidered on clothing, etc.
In Semiology, Semantics, and Semiotics.
A Monogram is a Letter or Combination of Letters rendered in a Distinctive Manner Devoid of Confinement.
Yes, a Symbol can be a Letter or a Figure etc.
The most incompetent and misinformed Designer(s) would never associate an Acronym, or Monogram, Series of "BBB" as a Symbol when the Symbol is a Torch.
If anything "BBB" with the Acronym and/or Monogram is Closely Related to these Superior Examples of Monograms with Symbols.
NCR, National Cash Registry, Saul Bass
http://brandsoftheworld.com/search/?query_id=25243022&page=1&brand_id=7492
AT&T, The Globe Sphere, Saul Bass, Jerry Kuyper
Widely Seen, needs no Visual Interpretation
NBC, The Peacock, Chermayeff & Geismar, Designer, Steff Geissbuhler
http://brandsoftheworld.com/search/?query_id=25243869&page=2&brand_id=112473
CBS, The Eye Symbol, William Golden, Georg Olden
http://brandsoftheworld.com/search/?query_id=25244460&page=1&brand_id=1016
WWF, The Panda Bear, Jerry Kuyper, Jenny Leibundgut
http://brandsoftheworld.com/search/?action=search&text=WWF
Jeff’s comment is:
I'm fine with this. It is ..alright.
They needed an outside opinion from someone who wasnt familiar with the previous logo to see the soup bowl..
-i didnt see a need to lose the serifs
-somehow put a handle on the torch
On Oct.25.2007 at 04:47 PM
Danny Tanner’s comment is:
DM:
Im not arguing in an attempt to agitate you.
I just believe in my view.
Just to let you know, you contradicted yourself in you last posting when stating...
_________________________________________________
"BBB" is not a symbol, it is an Acronym and/or Monogram.
&
"BBB" is not a legitimate acronym because it doesn't formulate a word that represents the company.
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I'm starting to see logic of "a square isn't a rectangle because it's a square," when in fact, a square is a type of rectangle.
Here's my view, your welcome to disagree:
A symbol is a type of sign, distinguishing mark or emblem which expresses a definite meaning not directly obvious from its form. This means its meaning must be learned though context, use, etc.
A monogram a conventional way of signifying identity. It is usually formed of one or more initials of a name.
To transform your everyday monogram into something unique, something special, it needs to change from general signifier, a sign of generalized identity, into something unique, a symbol, a sign of specific identity.
This can be achieved a number of ways. One of these ways is letter placement. Another is letter embellishment. There are countless ways to make a monogram a unique symbol.
We have established that monograms stylized to represent a specific identity (such as corporate identity) are symbols, and are different from monograms you might have put on your towels at Bed, Bath, and Beyond which merely a sign of ambiguous identity.
That being said, the Westinghouse "W" monoseal is a symbol. It is a symbol because due to it's stylized appearance, we can tell that this "W" specifically stands for Westinghouse.
The "BBB" is a monogram and symbol also. The distinct shape and arrangement of the "BBB" along with the fact that there are 3 B's, well, are unique. It is this uniqueness which qualifies it as a symbol.
The torch/flame is a secondary symbol. It is not unique, not ownable, and could never on it's own represent the Better Business Bureau. The torch reflects their values as a symbol of enlightenment, of virtue, of honor, of education, etc., but is not very useful in visually identifying the organization. The Bs play lead, the torch plays back up.
As for this acronym debacle:
It makes sense that the Better Business Bureau is listed under "BBB" in directory assistance. Many organizations do this, or may have stock tickers listed with their names in certain directories. Many organizations don't wish to be referred to as acronyms, but due to their cumbersome names, adopt the use of acronyms for use in shorthand, use in url's, or when their name appears more than once in copy, such as in a newspaper story.
These usages usually have nothing to do with the graphic identity and are not attempts to change the name of the organization. They are just functional uses for everyday needs.
On Oct.25.2007 at 06:08 PM
Armin’s comment is:
Alright. Stuff from this comment thread has been removed. If took off some actual opinions on the logo, I apologize, it was just collateral damage.
As we were.
On Oct.26.2007 at 12:07 PM
Bob’s comment is:
For the logo, thumbs up to the font change, thumbs down for the rest.
Its interesting how many people believe or assume the BBB is a government agency of some kind. In fact they are one step above extortionists.
When I was younger I reported several business to the BBB and found besides some form letters, nothing was done. Unless you have very good documentation its your word against theres. And a business that is willing to scam you is also willing to lie to the BBB about it later. But the real scam is by the BBB themselves. It wasn't until I owned my own business that I discovered that businesses pay bribes for good listings. It would take a huge flood of complaints for the BBB not to drop the rating of a business that pays them. When a business that is not listed receives a complaint, the BBB contacts that business with an offer to become a member, as basically a bribe for a good rating. If they don't pay the complaint stays listed. The BBB will contact new businesses with no history and sign them up with good ratings. They perform no check or investigation to list a business. Choosing to who to trust based on BBB ratings is a very bad idea. In fact, I question any businesses that list themselves as members of the BBB because the only reason I can see to be a member is if you have something to hide.
On Jan.23.2008 at 05:00 PM
miles57’s comment is:
Kudos to you Bob for exposing the BBB for what it is...
I hired a contractor who was a member of the BBB to remodel my bathroom and he turned out to be a complete fraud and scum of the earth. Triple B was of absolutely no help and he lied his way out of it in small claims court. Years after I had almost put him out of my mind I found out he was convicted of ripping numerous other people off and sent to prison. There is justice in the world after all...
Sorry for the non-design related rant... guess I haven't "let it go" quite yet.
On Jan.24.2008 at 12:32 AM
Woke’s comment is:
Looks like Jumeirah's - http://www.jumeirah.com/ poor cousin. (or dog for that matter)
On Apr.25.2008 at 10:40 AM
Menk’s comment is:
reverse stance to bob above, I like the sleeker, less complicate torch -- but the typeface for the BBB looks too plain for three consecutive, identical letters. Maybe a sans with a less pronounced lower bowl would be better.
On Dec.12.2008 at 11:02 PM
Comments in Brand New, V1.0 have been closed.
