[Non-serious response]

I choose really, really thick paper and print the e-mail address and web site on the edge of the card.

[Serious response]

When possible I use the condensed version of a font (Univers Condensed, Akzidenz Condensed, etc) and that saves you at least 75% of space horizontally. I rarely spell out phone, fax or e-mail anymore; P,F and E have to make do. Double-sided cards always work, you can have logo and web site on one side all pretty and colorful and the rest of the text-heavy information on the other.

But I agree, the amount of information on cards nowadays is ridiculous.

As a web designer I am just dying to do a super textured card with just a url on it. If I give my card to some who doesn't access the web regularly, they are probably not doing to be a client of mine. Yes, I am not brave enough to do this yet, but the time will come...or perhaps it will be a number on my forehead.

not to derail your the thread, dear m, but since it's a problem that's near and dear to my own business card issues at the moment...

does anybody have any tips for obscure and divine paper resources?

>does anybody have any tips for obscure and divine paper resources?

You mean hand-made stuff eric? Don't know about NYC, but there's a few artists round here that make their own paper (hemp, rice, bamboo, watercolor, etc) for gift wraps, lamp shades, etc. I find them at the weekend open/craft/flea markets most often.

As far as cool paper goes, the Curious Paper line has always been different, as well as the stuff from GMUND papers out of Germany. Their Beer (sp?) and Havana lines are especially nice. But pricey.

..

Back to bcards. My record has been 9 lines of contact info for a CEO. I told him it was ridiculous to have that many numbers. In my experience, the really important execs have fewer numbers. They have staff people who will hunt them down if necessary. For example, I don't think anyone has Bill Gates or Howard Schultz' direct lines except their wives and VPs.

How to deal w/ excessive info? Really small, sans serif type. Bell Gothic works amazingly well at 6 points or smaller. No surprise there, since Carter designed it to read at that size in the phone books.

And the problem with handmade paper is that almost no offset printer will dare put it through their press, so you have to resort to letterpress, embossing or silk screening which can rack up a huge bill. But you are an eccentric millionaire Eric, so you should be OK.

We have faced this problem often where I work and our solution, while not elegant or simple, was to put information on the back of the card that was beyond our standard front. We really try to limit everyone only to basic info on the front of their cards, which these days does include e-mail and web address, but alternative phone numbers, beepers, etc...goes on the back. It's worked well for our sales reps, considering they always want to show their internal support person on their cards. Yep, a one card two-person scenario. Person #2 only gets their name, title and phone number.

So, far, it works.

some art schools have a papermaking studio (at least mine does anyway) so go make friends with some students. most schools also have an intranet/extranet so i say post a want-ad.

does anybody have any tips for obscure and divine paper resources?

I suppose NY Central Art Supply is too obvious? A good letterpress printer like Peter Kruty might have some resources.

back on thread...

For corporate programs, I'll offer up one or two different configurations to accomodate extra information. It's always for sales people that need to be at their customers' beck-and-call every hour of the day. Some clients are cool with putting extra information on the back of the card. This can be difficult, though, if you've designed a two-sided card to begin with. Sometimes the client understands that clear communication is the goal, and some sacrifices have to be made all around for the good of the company. A salesman with 12 numbers may think he's always reachable, but he's giving off a very unfocused image of his company. He's better having a central voice mail that he can check in with hourly.

The "name and phone number" business card reminds me of George Clooney's card in Ocean's Eleven. I thought that was smooth. I like the minimalist approach to this. Lots of white space and focus on the information. That usually catches eyes more than full color cards.

But maybe that's just me.

Double-sided cards are great, as long as all the important information is on one side. Someone handed me a card once that had their name on one side and their contact info on the other. Ugh.

12p x 21p space?

Business card sizes vary quite a bit from one corner of the world to another, and if you are designing for clients who travel (as most clients now do) it's good to be aware of the differences. It can be quite annoying to receive cards that do not fit into their intended sleeves.

North America is the only place left on the planet that still uses inches (although Canada has been officially metric for 30 years now and Mexico is also metric, these 'weaker' nations have little influence on regional norms, and the reality is that printers and their equipment and North American-stocked paper sizes have much to do with inches [and picas, points] still being used). The standard for generations of North American business cards has been 3.5" x 2" (21p6 x 12p, or 89mm x 51mm).

In Europe, business cards are typically 85mm x 55mm while in Asia, business cards are usually 90mm x 55mm (I don't know why, but they are). That said, the 'hippest' designers in Japan tend to use the European standard of 85mm x 55mm — so go figure.

In Icograda, we came up with a compromised hybrid size of 85mm x 50mm (to reflect the realities of a board from six continents) and these cards actually do fit into files everywhere.

I realize that this may all seem somewhat tangential and overly punctilious, but... Size does matter!

ah Robert, you see how computerized I've become? In the rounded-off computer pica land that 3.5 in. = 21p

but you are right.

The metric system, now ... I simply refuse to think in millimeters when it comes to type, design and measurement.

But we digress. Yes, there are many different standards for business card size. I'm using some European size for mine right now, but not having a metric ruler handy I'm not sure if it matches the size you mentioned.

And for years I've been adding an extra pica to the height (13p instead of 12p) of all cards I do, as I can get away with it without complaints.

Why, I just happen to have your Icograda card right here! It measures 12p x 20p, is 2-sided and contains in all:

A logo (twice)

A very long organization name in both French and English (twice)

Your name, title and date (of presidency)

Your co. name

address

tel

fax

email

web

+

Icograda address

tel

fax

email

web

*plus*

what is presumably the very long Icograda name in

EIGHT different scripts, including

Arabic, Chinese, Russian, (Thai?), Japanese and a couple of others I just can't identify.

Excuse my language, but holy fucking crap.

It looks pretty good, too, all things considered.

Oh, you have to post a picture of that.

Obscure and divine paper resource:

There's a place called Talas in NYC on Broadway.

http://www.talasonline.com/

They are a bookmaking/binder/paper resource

You can even order their sample books.

Paper? Business cards? Come on people. It's 2004. We're in the dawn of a new generation. Aren't we?

Five years ago, a local competitor of mine in Nebraska had an innovative idea: iCards. (Yeah, this was the same time as the iMac.) The cards weren't cards at all. They were microCDs with information printed on the surface, and a flashy animation, video, and personal data file embedded on the disc. They'd run on a Mac or Windows and came with sleeves for "protection." They cited all of the problems Marian does. But it didn't matter. Omaha wasn't ready for iCards in 1999. The studio could not sustain itself, they shut their doors, and I still have the "1st digital business card" prototype the principal gave me at an AIGA luncheon. Forget the price or the fact that these folks were "ahead of their time", the damn things won't work on these slot-loading disc drives we have in 2004! While they may have solved a content issue, they weren't prepared for technological advances whatsoever.

Too much info ruins a card. It's really tough to give everything the breathing room it needs and most examples I've seen end up looking cheap.

I agree that the two sided approach works best in situations where the amount of info would otherwise be overwhelming. If you have that much to say, you must have the money to spend on a card (IMO).

Quite a few Montreal businesses use very large cards. I'm not sure of the dimensions. Anyone know what I'm talking about? Wouldn't fit easily in any wallet I've ever owned, however.

M. Kingsley's card is huge.

ahem.

So many sexual inuendos, so little time… although Robert's was better, he actually built up a whole argument to support it.

I've always been fond of two-sided cards. Why waste a perfectly good printing surface? Though I used to always treat it like a billboard - solid color, maybe a logo/tagline sort of thing.

Now, with the information creep, I've been organizing them like this:

FRONT: Personal contact info that is constantly referred to: Name, title, phone, email.

BACK: Company information that typically gets used once to put into a database before stapling into rolodex: company address, fax, main phone line. URL if necessary, though I find it silly - as marion pointed out it's typically in the email and I don't think it needs calling out. The back is for the type of stuff that could be preprinted as shells for future employees (though rarely is).

Armin writes with envy:

M. Kingsley's card is huge.

well, you know... the bigger the card...

well, you know... the bigger the card...

...the smaller the point size?

although Robert's was better,

I have reread Robert's post hunting for sexual innuendo and I could find none. Did it have something to do with picas? Armin, you're one step ahead of me as usual.

Oh, you have to post a picture of that

Robert, may I?

>The metric system, now ... I simply refuse to think in millimeters when it comes to type, design and measurement.

Rob -- I have to agree w/ marian here, and disagree w/ you about metrics being ideal. Metrics is a base-10 unit system (mm, cm, m, etc), which means it's divisible by 2 and 5. Points & picas on the other hand, is a base-12 unit system, which is divisible by 2 and 3. Being divisible by 2 and 3 means that points/picas are more adaptable for a range of applications from business cards to packaging to editorial publications. 3 is a lower common denominator than 5. And by adaptable, I mean that fractions are less likely, and dimensions and measurements are mathmematically more precise. When we localize design/print templates for clients who print globally, the universal type/print standard is points and picas.

On the difference in dimensions, I remember reading that the reason there's a difference in size b/t US and European bcards has to do with its 18/19th century origins. "Calling cards" were originally used by the aristocracy in Europe for announcements, informal invitations, place cards, etc. Their dimensions were more proportional (taller) to larger announcements like A2 and A6 size as they were often inserted in conjunction with formal invitation packages. On the other hand, "trade cards" were used by working-class craftsmen and trade professionals as advertisements, as tags and labels on delivery packages and other less formal applications. Hence, they were shorter and wider, developing a proportion of their own. Becoming the modern business cards we use today.

So which dimensions is more correct depends on how you define the functions of a business card.

... now I'm curious ... just how big is M. Kingsley's card, anyway? Just the card, people, just the card.

Years ago, a friend of mine made a black card that simply said "Satan" in small white text.

People would ask "how do I get in touch with you?" and he'd just tell them that he would know when they needed him and would be in touch. I always enjoyed watching him hand one of those out.

I've been experimenting with a few different styles, usually trying to make the card look like some other paper item. I've kept a few different cards around at the same time, and it's fun to give someone a card that you think will resonate best with them.

marian -

2.5" x 3.5"

1/1, lots of white space and yes, a small point size.

One way to use fancy handmade/bizarre papers with a business card is to design your info & have a rubber stamp made of it. It would be crazy to do that for like 500 cards, but I like it for my illustration cards. Just stamp them out by hand. A little rough and earthy, but it works for the image i want to portray.

I *love* vertical format cards. Both of my cards are that way. I agree 100% that too much info ruins a business card. If I want your address, I can just visit your URL and find it out. Name, email, phone and perhaps a title are all that's necessary.

Additionally, I really find cards that require some form of personalization. It's rather popular with many of my peers to leave the phone number and email as a line or a place to write info, as it might change and if you're a poor student, who wants to pay for printing again? I think it adds a bit of directness and life to the card, especially if people take an extra half a second to write (or stamp?) their number nicely.

thank you all for the paper feedback. nice to have some new alternatives to the advertisements i get in the mail.

This is our card...

3.5 x 2.1875" -- sticks up just enough to stand out from cards in a stack after a business networking event. Even on a table alone you get a nice feel from the visual proportion.

As for info, company, name, one word job title, email, address, phone, web site... period.

No mobile phone - we don't need everyone knowing that.

No fax - god forbid we ever own one, though even if we did it would never make the card.

We considered not doing even a one word job title but later felt that people we were going to try to get business from needs to know they are talking to the owners.

We considered doing an email-as-web-address but it left the card weak, especially in the positioning of the information on the card.

No fax - god forbid we ever own one

I agree. The fax is antiquated technology. I would never put my fax number on a card. If people really must stoop so low in communications, they can call me to find out my fax no. (actually, no dedicated line).

Most businesses, alas, still use the fax even more (yes, even more, people) than the Rolodex. Go figure.

What's a Rolodex?

Marian, the reason that the Icograda card has such convoluted information is directly related to the functions it serves. It is a tool, not an aesthetic construct. (It is a tool that has to take into account much more complex considerations and much broader variables than most corporate business cards, so it is also not suitable for use as a benchmark — and showing it is therefore of little value). For example, Icograda board members have their own addresses in their country of origin (on one side) and the Icograda Secretariat in Brussels along with related contact information appears on the reverse side. The logotype and name 'International Council of Graphic Design Associations' appears in full in each of English and French (the two official languages) as well as in a variety of writing systems/languages that are relevant to and respectful of Icograda's worldwide constituency.

Incidentally, that was the old card I'm commenting on. Icograda has just gone back to its original logotype set in lower case Helvetica Medium (as first used in 1963, and without the 'eyeball') as part of an overall re-branding exercise being undertaken by Pentagram in London. Pentagram was charged late last year with coalescing the corporate identities of the world's three international design bodies: Icograda, ICSID (Industrial Design) and IFI (Interior Design and Interior Architecture) as well as an umbrella identity for the IDA (International Design Alliance), the latter being the federated umbrella body that is now being formed to address 'one voice' issues of Design on a global scale. These 'branding' changes will become visible later this year.

Incidentally, I think it's somewhat naive (I'm tempted to say wrong-headed) to make sweeping statements about fax being obsolete today (just because you do not use one — though I realize and respect that 'Speak Up' is largely about personal opinion and unfettered expression rather than concerned with best practice). In large portions of the world tangible/material communications and records are still the norm — don't forget that the vast majority of human beings today do not have access to computers or media such as 'Speak Up'. Of the 6.3 billion of us, only about 1.1 billion are privileged and wealthy enough to benefit from digitized technology, while the rest of the world is still firmly 'analog.'

Excuse my language, but holy fucking crap.

Holy. Fucking. Crap. — Marian, each of the above elements of your expletive has significant meaning for me, though I believe that each is best on its own, and typically, I would not recommend combining more than any two at one time.

Have an enjoyable Easter weekend...

Boy oh boy am i having a bad day.

Robert, the recitation of the extent of information on your card was not meant as a criticism, but rather should have been read in tones of awe that it could actually be accomplished -- especially as it was done without looking like crap, holy, fucking or otherwise.

If i had posted it, which i shall not, it would have been as an instructive to how such a thing can be acheived.

Of course anyone who wants may call me and i will fax them a copy. (Just kidding, the card won't fax well.)

Rob -- I have to agree w/ marian here, and disagree w/ you about metrics being ideal.

Tan, I did not say that the metric system is ideal (I'm wondering why you conclude that?). I did, however, say that North America is the only place on earth where the metric system has not yet become the norm. It was a statement of fact, rather than a value judgement.

I fully agree with you about the problematic issue of common denominators (a pain in everyday use). That said, the metric system (because it is a practical and integrated system of equivalences for distance, capacity, weight and force — and because it is a decimal system) does have many advantages to offer when one looks at the big picture). Without a doubt, the Base 10 System is already widely accepted by the public as well as business as the method of finance. It is also the first method everyone all over the world has of counting — by the use of our ten fingers and the same number of toes.

Tan, thanks for the historical information regarding business card sizes — the reasons you outline sound very reasonable. (By the way, do you still have a light fixture disguised with blue sky and puffy white clouds above your workspace? I have a great picture of you (somewhere) taken at your office in Seattle a few years back... )

>By the way, do you still have a light fixture disguised with blue sky and puffy white clouds above your workspace?

Alas, the clouds are still there, but I am not. I moved out of that office a few years ago, when I merged my firm with another, and where I subsequently left to be where I am today. I leased that little office to another consultancy, who I still visit occasionally. Would love to see your photo sometime though.

> I did not say that the metric system is ideal

Sorry to be presumptuous Rob. My mistake. I think we both agree that the English system of measurement is horribly antiquated, and that we love all things more precise -- whether it's metrics or points and picas. The fingers and toes thing on the other hand, is a little wierd to be used for justification :-)

> It is a tool that has to take into account much more complex considerations and much broader variables than most corporate business cards, so it is also not suitable for use as a benchmark — and showing it is therefore of little value.

This is an erroneous statement Robert, and a surprising one coming from the past President of the Icograda.

The Icograda card like any other tangible object, whether it is ephemeral or enduring, is, at its end, an artifact. Showing such an artifact, with its plethora of information, as an example of information design is of more than little value. To state that it should not be shown because it is not a benchmark and has little value begs the question, "Why do we publish annuals, monographs and retrospectives and why do we have museums displaying artifacts that are no longer benchmarks in their respective sphere of influence?"

Further, I, if no one else, would never assume that the card should be used as a 'benchmark'. The thought seems overarching.

To say, "It is a tool that has to take into account much more complex considerations and much broader variables than most corporate business cards," does not erase the fact that it is inextricably within the realm of graphic design. The Icograda had a communication challenge, as you stated,

"For example, Icograda board members have their own addresses in their country of origin (on one side) and the Icograda Secretariat in Brussels along with related contact information appears on the reverse side. The logotype and name 'International Council of Graphic Design Associations' appears in full in each of English and French (the two official languages) as well as in a variety of writing systems/languages that are relevant to and respectful of Icograda's worldwide constituency."

That challenge was met and was published for public consumption.

Simply, this is a discussion about the challenges we face with managing the design of information on business cards. The item in question is a business card - containing a demanding amount of information. So why not show it here?

To return to my surprise over your reasoning and your past and present relations with the Icograda; my surprise is founded in the conflict between your statement of reluctance and the organization's statement of purpose:

Icograda's Purpose

Icograda is the world's non-governmental and non-political representative and advisory body for graphic design and visual communication. It serves the worldwide community of graphic designers. In doing so, Icograda aims to:

- raise the standards of design, professional practice, and ethics

- raise the professional status of the graphic designer

- further the appreciation of designers' professional achievements

- extend design's contribution to understanding among people

- promote the exchange of information, views, and research

- contribute to design education - theory, practice and research

- coordinate matters of professional practice and conduct

- establish international standards and procedures

- hold congresses, conferences, seminars, and symposia

- publish and distribute information concerned with graphic design.

Am I the only one puzzled by this?

Wow.

I can't argue with your use of Icograda's Statement of Purpose to make your point, Brady. And, I admit that my reasoning is often flawed, in spite of best efforts. (Does the human frailty defence count here)?

Here's an attempt to show you the pic (I'm also, admittedly, somewhat of a Luddite, so this may not actually work)...

Does the human frailty defence count here

I hope so -- without it, I'm hooped.

n.b. On that icograda card the 8 language scripts are reveresed out of the colour to the left of the dark text ... they're hard to see there, but they're there.

My business card is forced to use just one side as the other side is the exact same card in Chinese. Makes space a bit cramped but what are you going to do? To All: I have enjoyed your thoughts on the subject and look forward to a redesign of our card.

Robert,

Thank you for posting the card.

I am a big example of human frailty, believe me.

The card is beautiful. As I suspected, a grand example of working with lots of information in a small space.

Marian, can you help the 'Luddite' ; ) and post a larger photo, possibly showing both sides equally? I would love to see more detail.

Thanks again.

The fingers and toes thing on the other hand, is a little wierd to be used for justification

Actually, not at all. From antiquity humans have used their bodies as the basis for systems of measurement.

span (of the hand)

cubit - from elbow to fingertip

hand (width) - still the way horses' height is measured

foot - just guessing from the name

finger (width) - if you have kids, then you know about this time-honored cervix measurement

Can you imagine the weird measures we would have if the two-toed ostrich was an intelligent life-form?

sticks up just enough to stand out from cards in a stack after a business networking event

Upon seeing that, i'd think the designer didn't care enough to figure out the correct size or that it was a trim error. Business cards are traditional & formal business communications - unless the card had intentionally edgy styling, and the contour was obviously something unique and purposeful - i would stick with a standard size.

Is a busines card necessary for a mid-career web designer? As a digital designer, i haven't done a lot of print work and figuring out how to produce a business card affordably everytime i change contact info would be a pain.

Is it acceptable to have a home injet printed car? or is it better not to have one at all?

Does anyone here have a company business card AND a personal contact info card? Do they look the same?

All this talk about special paper, custom sizes, letterpress, special inks…

This is the way to go!

:)

I'm a letterpress printer and use 4-ply illustration board for my cards and I people love it. Because they are thick, I have to restock more often. Dimensions: 85x55 mm. For small point sizes try Celeste or Stone Sans.

My card is representative of my printing capabilities so I make sure it represents it. Card essentials for sole-proprietors:

company name

name/title

contact #

website (without any e-mail address)

Marian, can you help the 'Luddite' ; ) and post a larger photo,

Well I did help him once by serving the image off my site (see? we're pals, no blood shed), and if i weren't feeling so damned lazy I'd scan a bigger pic, but i think you get the general idea there. Also of note, the type size is not miniscule (maybe 7 or 7.5pt of some fine serif). So yeah, it can be done and i feel like a griper re. some of the less challenging cards I have had to deal with.

Is it acceptable to have a home injet printed card?

Although generally I'm opposed to the inkjet card I have a friend who is getting amazing results on fancy, expensive, italian papers through his inkjet (an HP of some kind).

Does anyone here have a company business card AND a personal contact info card?

OK. for all my complaints about the plethora of info on a card I must confess that I personally solve the problem by having ... ahem, 4 or 5 business cards with different information on them, which i string together on chains (like those mini ball chains) and hand them out like that (I think there's a picture of this somewhere on this site). It gets confusing though -- I have to make a snap decision when meeting someone which cards I should give them ... illustration + design + GDC + personal + Vancouver Review + (soon) Speak Up? And ... heh, heh ... none of my cards have my physical address on them so when I was at the AIGA conference for instance and I wanted to get free stuff from a vendor or something, I also had a slip of paper with my address.

OK .. I admit it, I'm nuts.

After this Icograda incident I am vaguely considering doing a card for myself with ALL of my information on it: 3 addresses, 3 phone numbers, and 5 or 6 web addresses + email. Just as a lark -- see if it can be done.

Get More Ideas here:

Ideo Identity Card Project

Heh heh heh. ONE-sided, people, one-sided:

I love it. I'm gonna print it.

I really like the less is more approach when it comes to business cards, and visually separating the domain part of your e-mail address to indicate your URL seems like a nifty trick.

How about taking this one step further and incorporating your phone number into your e-mail address as well? I realise that most people might not want/be able to change e-mail address. But what do you think of the idea? I made a quick example at newcode.se. What do you think?

One problem is that the e-mail address is harder to remember, but in return if someone makes the effort to remember your phone number, the will also remember your e-mail.

I use my business cards as an introduction, a first point of contact. For that purpose I think this idea works. How about you?

I feel that buisness cards are very important. It gives a first impression of how you design and come up with concepts. I think the more simple the better. I see many buisness cards so text heavy that you don't know where to start reading. I think that all that needs to be on there is a name, phone number, and your website. If they want to find you, they will. Also a buisness card is a personal thing. Small type works great, because if the client has to take an extra second to look at your buisness card, there is more of a chance that they will remember you.

For my own business card, I chose all different kind of vellum papers, and used a square shape. I like the square business card, 'cause I can't carry those within my wallet for its unusual shape as a business card, so I keep those seperately. Vellum papers help to see through, I designed mine in purpose of exposure of typography (V shape out of jr character) in the businesscard through front and back side. here's the exam picture,

Thanks .... ^^'

Thank you very much and Greetings from Malaga (Spain). Antonio :-)