If you don't want to register to read the story...

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/news/archive/2004/01/21/national0259EST0431.DTL

oh, thanks...

see! it was too early for me to think about all of the variables.

So, how does one get grants like this to study the obvious? I'd probably go out on a limb and actually state that sleep is pretty much essential for the human body to perform most tasks effectively. ;o)

Why does everyone in Design keep telling people to work 12 hour days and "learn to work on less sleep"? Your brain does everything anyway, just go back to sleep; do what you feel.

I don't think we should work for more than 6 hours. And work should be set up so that you can sleep in as long as you want.

There was an interesting article in I.D.'s last issue. Based on the article's author recent trip to Barcelona it's main theme was about how air conditioning has made us (Americans) intolerant to nature's intended weather and… it's interesting, and I'm messing it up, so read it if you have a chance. But the point it made that relates to sleep was regarding the siesta. Where people in Barcelona (this happens all around the world, specially in South America) would nap after lunch for 15, 30 or 45 minutes, spending the warm noon hours in the shade and then going back to work refreshed. So it is in Mexico, the only difference there is that people do siestas but are so damn lazy they don't do anything the rest of the day. Anyway, I think it's also scientifically proven that naps during the day improve productivity. A friend in Mexico, after lunch used to take siestas no matter where he was, whether it was at his house, my house, some stranger's house, a restaurant, a car, wherever, he would plop himself on the floor, on the couch, on the back seat and sleep.

And I can't remember which famous person (a president maybe?) claimed to work 4 hours, then sleep 2 like clockwork and that it was the most productive schedule.

I try to get at least 8 hours of sleep. 6 will do. 4 and I'm useless. Also, on weekends I used to get up at 10, 11 am. Now, at 8:30 I'm up and ready to check my e-mail.

I don't think we should work for more than 6 hours.

I'm with you on that, Tom.

Armin, I was told by a Mexican businesss person aquaitance that a big problem is the 'americanism' creeping in to northern Mexico where the siesta has been retired and replaced with the 15 minute coffee break.

I really find it odd that we Americans' tolerate the amount of hours we work a year.

I feel that the 8-hour work day is an outdated concept. I think the last time that a standard work week was reduced (to 40 hours) was with the Fair Labor Standards Act, but that was geared mainly towards hourly production workers.

I'll look for more information, but for now this article details some of the basic statistics I was thinking of.

I found some interesting trivia on famous sleepers.

I myself notice a huge difference with my own productivity based on the amount of sleep I get. But for me, it's more when I get it than how much. I'm simply not a morning person...my mind doesn't really kick in till about 3pm and I could work all night. Since I've started a new position with more flexibility I've definately been both more creative and productive.

My dad (35 years NYC Sanitation) who is now retired (although still is the supt. of a building in manhattan and has a dog-walking/boarding business) sleeps on average of 4 hours a day. Hee naps once a day. It's all he needs. Me? I *never* work through it...I sleep on it. I am the cliche...my best ideas come to me while drifting off to sleep or driving long distances. I cannot tell you the number of times my breakthrough came within minutes of laying down...

So can I assume then that when a client says "I don't get it" he or she just didn't get enough sleep?

armin,

you beat me to it with the id article about barcelona's sleeping habits.

personally, i did the 4 hour a night routine for about 2 1/2 years while i was getting my masters at art center, and starting my own business at the same time. (financially there was no way around it). i realized that i could pull it off by keeping a strict routine -- getting up at exactly the same time every morning and logging out at the very exact time nightly. including weekends. however, the day after getting my degree my batteries were completely drained and it took me a few weeks to recover. looking back, i have to assume what got me through it was that i had that goal in front of me, and the determination to get there. these days i'm getting probably 7-8 hours and i enjoy every minute of it.

Hate to burst your bubble -- but America's productivity is one of the highest in the world, if not the highest. And that's a direct result of our insane work practices.

Yes, we work too damn hard. Yes, we should take more vacation, or at the very least, a siesta now and then. Yes, our quality of life is compromised.

But the theory that less work = higher productivity is just simply not true. We'd like for it to be true, but it's just not. Studies show that the first 16 hours of a 40 hour work week (40%) accounts for 80% of an employee's productivity. But it's a constant percentage -- meaning that a shorter workweek would just result in less productive time, not a higher percentage of quality work time. So it's quality and quantity.

Saw a show a couple years back that compared labor practices in Europe, Hong Kong, India, and the US. While Europeans enjoy shorter workweeks and longer vacation time, there's a direct correlation with productive output. In short, the countries that work insane hours (the US and Hong Kong) had more successful businesses and thrived more than those that don't (Netherlands, Mexico, India).

I'd gladly take the shorter work weeks with more vacation time in return for less productivity. I'd love to be able to get more sleep.

I think maybe we expect too much these days, especially with technology often allowing us to do more work in less time.

I have a sudden urge to move to Copenhagen.

the gains that the US has made in productivity should be given back to the workers. we instead get more productive and then work more. that only benefits the people in line to get the profit. most of europe is not that far behind in terms of productivity per hour (i'm trying to find a good article i read about this). tan is right in that we are the most productive country in the world, and we're likely to stay this way...but we are making some serious sacrifices.

some other ways overwork hurts us...

extra stress/health concerns, stress on relationships, fewer people employed because fewer people are taking all of the work hours, less time for personal projects (this should appeal to designers)... i dont know. just some thoughts.

i have read some stuff that says there might be an optimum number of hours per week for maximum productivity...and it was like 32 hours or something. another thing is that it gives consumers more free time to spend money...which is, of course. good for the economy as a whole.

Hate to burst your bubble -- but America's productivity is one of the highest in the world, if not the highest.

I have yet to hear a solid definition of how one define's productivity to a workforce overall. Typically, I see it based on the amount of product we produce. The problem with that is that it only measures quantity...not quality.

In short, the countries that work insane hours (the US and Hong Kong) had more successful businesses and thrived more than those that don't

But I'm not a business. I'm a person. ;o)

Good question Darrel. As to quantity and quality, well you can argue that quality is a standard measurement to meet and surpass -- even in service industries like ours. There is a great deal of subjectivity, but you can argue that the number of clients you get, the size and scope of projects and budgets you gain, are all a direct, somewhat measureable guage of the quality of your work.

But I'm not a labor expert. I'm talking out of my arse here.

Look, I'd love more sleep too. I have 2 kids, a career, and lots of TV that needs watching. Something's gotta give. But I've consigned to the fact that I work best under pressure -- that if I want to work less, I have to be more efficient -- find methods to kick myself in the ass to produce more in less time. Then dedicate that time to more sleep, more recreation, more personal time. I don't think it's the other way around -- that by sleeping more, it will help make me a better designer.

> But I'm not a business. I'm a person. ;o)

Not to your clients.

...

This discussion is making me tired. I'm going to be under my desk napping if anyone needs me....zzzzzzz

One of my pet peeves is when people automatically equate "productivity" with "number of hours worked". When it comes to design, or any idea-driven profession, the equation isn't always so simple. We're not talking about physical labor here, building brick walls or stamping out license plates.

A strong design solution can present itself in five minutes, five hours, or five days. Sure, some tasks take considerable time, but we all know that the BEST idea can happen on the bus or in the shower, or half asleep.

Isn't that one of the dirty little secrets of our profession?

Yes, that's true Steve. But you know what? It all evens out at the end. You pay for that 5 minute solution with the next job that takes you 6 weeks to solve.

Look at the fact that most firms (and designer) can produce a similar amount of work in a similar amount of time. So there must be some common guage of productivity for service industries. It may not be simple, but there is an equation to this business.

ok, back to my nap.

I agree with Darrel's take on Tan's comment.

While the US productivity results can be measured in terms of money, no one can deny that --regarding our bussiness--countries like The Netherlands have a clear lead. Having worked there I think that their attitude towards the work/life balance has a direct effect on all creative activities. We, in the US, may produce more commercials, or annual reports, etc, and make more money out of them, but the way carefully and tastefully crafted design surrounds you in The Netherlands is light years ahead of us.

On the other hand, I haven't read the Wired article, but being a Spaniard, and having worked there almost all my design career, I have yet to get my hands on a siesta! people keep telling me about it, but I haven't seen it yet :-)

You're absolutely right, Tan, that's the issue.

Similar task can take me wildly different amounts of time to complete. That's not true of most service or labor oriented jobs. Sure, it all comes out in the wash, but there is a serious x-factor at play here...creativity.

The creativity x-factor is key. Anything we do can technically always be possibly redone or tried yet another way, so it is really hard to figure out. I know that sometimes I say, ok I'm going to figure this out right now, & if its not there then there's not a whole lot you can do, except hope that there is enough time for the solution to come before you really need it. I am still in school, so I absolutely have a little more flexibility, & I am slowly finding my balance. Our teachers really put out the idea of "work hard, play hard," & though sometimes its hard to stay efficient & on schedule it's always nice to feel like you actually deserve some partying. That is, those few times when you can make yourself not feel guilty about it as well as not feel like you should sleep now that you have time! What a mess.

> We, in the US, may produce more commercials, or annual reports, etc, and make more money out of them, but the way carefully and tastefully crafted design surrounds you in The Netherlands is light years ahead of us.

As a designer, I agree. But there's a sense of elitism in your judgement here. Mass consumption of media and design isn't always what we'd like it to be, or force upon consumers. Clean, austere, planned modernism isn't necessarily a better creative environment. For example, take the French Quarters in New Orleans, or a city block in downtown Tokyo, or Hong Kong. I don't think "tastefully crafted design surrounds" any of those cities. It's quite the opposite actually. Yet, I'd argue that creativity is as fertile and vibrant there as any Copenhagen museum.

If design is culture, then the stuff produced by the US is still the most in demand around the world -- movies, TV, music, fashion, packaging, branding. I've seen graphic design from France, Italy, and Spain -- and in my opinion, lots of it sucks. Design and creativity is about trends, taste, mood, passion -- not striking a "balance" of anything. Creativity isn't always dependent on quality of life.

What about musicians? Do you think rock and punk bands depend on quality of life and sleep to create their best work? That if they lived a clean life or slept 8 hours a day, it would improve the quality of their work? Hell no -- more drugs and less sleep probably makes better music in many cases. What balance is that?

What about writers or other fine artists? Do you think clean living has anything to do with their work? If Vonnegut didn't smoke, didn't drink, and slept 10 hours a day -- would his work be better than what it is? Shit no.

See, I don't think creativity is something you nurture or pamper. For some people, it is. But for others, it's something else.

I'm not proposing that designers have to live like shit to be good. It just seems that this "creativity is improved by sleep" findings is just a bunch of new age bs.

Brook -

the gains that the US has made in productivity should be given back to the workers. we instead get more productive and then work more. that only benefits the people in line to get the profit.

The point of running a business is to make money. You start/run a business, increase productivity, minimize costs, to make a profit. What is wrong with this?

some other ways overwork hurts us...

Who is forcing anybody in this country to work more than they want to?

...and it was like 32 hours or something. another thing is that it gives consumers more free time to spend money...which is, of course. good for the economy as a whole.

So how many businesses do you think would pay their workers the same salary to work less hours? Or take hourly workers - if you make the same hourly wage, but work less hours, you make less. If this is the case, I'm guessing most workers aren't going to be using their extra time to spend their money but to find another job.

During my employment at Macromedia, there were NUMEROUS times when I wasn't able to get enough sleep. In fact, it was almost frowned upon to only put in an 8 hour work day. Most of '97-'99 was just a sort of somnambulic blur. There was nothing more depressing than seeing the same beige cubes trudging in at 9:30 AM or so, after having left work the previous night at 11:00, if not 1:00 AM. Ugh! Nowadays, I really try to get 8 hours sleep. It's just not worth feeling rundown and depressed.

I have to say that I am much more in favor of the European attitude towards work. Okay, so their productivity isn't as manicly high as the masochistic US, but their quality if life is much more balanced. Who cares if your being hyper-productive and making lots of money, when you have no real life outside of working. I know this from personal experience. I think it would be interesting to see the productivity statistics in contrast to levels of social malaise, such as divorse rates, alcoholism/drug abuse, mental illness, and other ways in which stress reveals itself.

Also, I'm with Mahalie: I'm really a night person. While this is a completely unfounded, bastardization of anthropology, my thoery is that, back in the antediluvian times, there were two clans of cave dwellers, those that tended the fire during the day, and those that tended the fire at night. I'm from the latter group. But then again, maybe it's all those years of being a clubbing fiend that has tainted me. ;-)

I also think that we have built our sleep patterns around the dictates of our mechanized world, rather than the natural circadian rhythms in which our body functions.

My ideal situation, which I seem to fall into when I'm doing freelance work from home, is to work in somewhat random, segmented chunks of time. Basically, I'm integrating my work with other activities of the day. This, combined with being a nightowl, sometimes means that I'm working in the wee hours of the morning. But then I'm getting up at 11:00 AM. Actually, my freelance clients know that I'm not going to up at 8:30, generally. When you work like this, sometimes putting in a lot of hours doesn't seem so bad, because it's broken up with other life activities.

I also believe in taking naps.

Lots of people have to work more than they want to, and I'm not just talking about the working poor. Design especially seems like a field that could accommodate flexible schedules, job sharing, etc.—the kind of thing that would enable, say, someone caring for children or elderly parents to work a fulfilling and career-building job without having to start their own business. As it is, if you want to work a twenty-hour week instead of a forty-hour one, it's waitressing or freelance—neither of which offers benefits and one of which actually ends up being a full-time job anyway.

less time for personal projects

Not totally on-topic, but if I could have, say, an hour every day to work on a project unrelated to my job, I think I would be a better designer.

I'd take that over a nap any day. Sure, I have stuff I work on in my spare time, but if I could do it here, I think I would be getting a lot more out of it.

-R

Tan-

What about musicians? Do you think rock and punk bands depend on quality of life and sleep to create their best work? That if they lived a clean life or slept 8 hours a day, it would improve the quality of their work? Hell no -- more drugs and less sleep probably makes better music in many cases. What balance is that?

Well, okay, there's the "die young, stay pretty" and "it's better to burn out, than fade away" attitudes. Rock and punk history is full of self-destruction. But does that make it right? (BTW, Neil Young, despite his lyrics, is certainly fading.)

What about writers or other fine artists? Do you think clean living has anything to do with their work? If Vonnegut didn't smoke, didn't drink, and slept 10 hours a day -- would his work be better than what it is? Shit no.

I guess my main criticism wasn't so much directed towards the sleep or not to sleep but towards the pervasive "only work" attitude. I don't see drinking or smoking as "working." And quality of life extends beyond the number of hours you sleep, to include also partying, or getting wasted if you want to. As long as you don't have to be at your office from nine am to ten pm the next day...

My opinion is that in those countries where people have achieved a balance between strong work ethics (and none stronger than the dutch/protestant one) and quality of life (again, broader than just sleep), people appreciate and expect the added value of a well designed environment. From streets to stamps, from banknotes to furniture to punk fanzines...

I guess my point of view is quite a nihilist one, if your life is good, if you do the things that make you feel good, the "stuff" that you create will be better; even the suffering that comes sometimes as a result of living fully, will be part of your creative process.

If design is culture, then the stuff produced by the US is still the most in demand around the world

Which doesn't mean that it's always of the best quality, right?

It's worth noting that the researchers were measuring the time taken to solve a math problem with varying amounts of sleep, not design a logo or magazine layout.

(Like many scientists, they have a chip on the shoulder about their work not being recognized as "creative", and they like to use that word to describe their work whenever possible.)

And I wonder, which particular drugs were in Keef's system as he slept that famous Satisfaction sleep...

"It is common practice that a problem difficult at night is resolved in the morning after the committee of sleep has worked on it." —John Steinbeck

When I was in college (back in the day), I used to write my best papers between midnight and 4 a.m. and sleep for two hours, get up, go to class, submit paper, go home and pay for it for at least two days.

I find the same thing happens when I stay up past 1 a.m. now. I do find, however, that I get a second wind about 10:00 p.m., if I dont' go to bed and can go for another 2-3 hour with creativity flowing like the Colorado river.

I think that (at least in the U.S.), we work at a pace that we weren't meant for.

We're down to the last Push here at motormouth mag. Shevy, the ring leader hasn't slept more than 4-5 hours a day/evening depending.

I was pretty impressed with his stamina, but I'm not sure how much energy it takes to direct, and approve.

I did two all-nighters with the group this week, and it was pretty hilarious to witness people's brains actually turning to jello before my eyes. Nobody could work the server by 7am, there were horrendous misspellings; it was totally apparent that we need sleep to function properly.

So, let's see we left Clique(breakfast spot) on Jefferson Ave at 8:30am, I woke up at 12:30, so that's four hours. Went back to Push, knocked out 8 section headers, an ad, and a few small revisions. I'm totally happy with my work, so with that thought, I kinda have to tend to think that it's all relative.

You will at some point turn to jello, or something mushy and mumbley, but if you're into the work, that energy will wake you up from a pretty extensive day-cum-evening-cum-morning just to get it done. However, if this was some wack corporate gig who knows how I would've performed.

I wonder if hours of rest and metabolism work together to make up your stamina?

It's quite interesting to hear a lot of comments of how people find solutions minutes before they fall asleep.

Take a back step to the thread about creative blocks. Maybe a nap will take that block right away. Like I posted, I usally "get horizontal" and turn off all media.

For all the industrial designers reading this, think fold away cots incorporated in design cubes.

I do work in my sleep. Last night I dreamt through, criticized, and refined many of my thoughts in a dream. I even did some visual design work. All of my present work is the result of a particularly inspiring dream I had. So what, if the world thinks you're lazy and you sleep 10 hours through the day?

Another interesting article on sleep and memory:

http://www.cbc.ca/stories/2004/01/21/sleep_mem040121

On the other hand, why don't we just replace caffeine with modafinil and forget sleep altogether?

Medical residences in ERs frequently must do 18-30 hour rotations at a time. The reason the shifts are so long is because the most critical hours for a recovering ER patient is the first 24-36 hours. It's helpful for the same doctor to maintain continual care for those patients. It's cruel, but it's a requirement of that job.

Graphic design has its requirements too. It seems like an easy job, but maybe it's more demanding than some people are cut out for.

Design students are regularly meant to pull all-nighters once in a while. It's not a requirement, but it seems to be a tradition and reality of academic survival. It's not likely to change anytime soon.

In all the firms I've worked for, when it's busy -- the hours designers must put in are long. That's just the way it is. But you know what, it's still a cake walk compared to most other professions.

Don't like it? Can't handle it. Looking for more balance? Quit, and work on your own terms. Sleep all you want.

does anyone dream design? sometimes, when i'm awake, i'll catch myself setting type in the sky behind people when i'm talking to them. hmm...that would look nice. sometimes i have nightmares about weird things i can't figure out happening in illustrator. no shit.

it would be interesting to see the productivity statistics in contrast to levels of social malaise, such as divorse rates, alcoholism/drug abuse, mental illness, and other ways in which stress reveals itself.

I'm totally with Steve on this. We tend to hear phrases like "high productivity" and think "that's good--get more o' that" but what's the fallout?

My former company, in the design world, was a pretty laid back place. We rarely worked overtime--our outside lives were just too important to us, the owners, and we weren't about to make employees do what we weren't willing to do ourselves.

So I've been getting 8 hours for years (8 works best for me--much more and I feel like shit). Now the past 6 months I've been noodling around doing other stuff and just generally being a lazy bitch. I'm unclear how "productive" I'm being. In some senses I feel totally unproductive, but when I actually write down what I've been doing I look at it and think "wow! all that?" I will say, however, that I have more ideas and more creative stuff floating around in my head (and coming out my fingers) than I've ever had in my life.

My most efficient pattern (the one I fall into most days) is wake up around 8:30, hit the computer and vent my internet addiction til noon, eat, then really get down to Productive Work early afternoon til around 10 or 11pm. Go to sleep shortly after midnight. When I'm working on something consistently I find I get in the Zoneat around 6pm.

If I consistently get shortchanged on sleep, I just get tired; if I consistently get more than 8 hours (like start sleeping 10 hour nights) I get sluggish and unbelievably lazy.

I guess Tan the impression I'm getting from you is that working long hours is part of the job, so deal. If you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen, as the saying goes.

Well, okay, but it shouldn't be that a lack of sleep is the generally accepted condition that we should all embrace. Every challenging and rewarding job is going to require that you put in long hours from time to time. God knows I've pulled waaay more than my fair share of very long days and herculian all-nighters; and I'll undoubtedly do more. I even consider it a sort of "red badge of courage" in a way. However, I've been in a number situations where this attitude has been completely abused. Lack of sleep should be considered the exception, not the norm. We should be trying to find ways of being constructively productive, not dysfunctionally semi-productive.

Life is a marathon, not a sprint. Yeah, work hard, but stop and smell the roses from time to time.

I dunno, I've just experienced too many dot-com hyper-frenzied, grind-you-down-to-the-bone moments. I mean, I worked in company where a programmer commited suicide because he was pushed beyond his limits. That's just horribly sad!

A few thoughts....

Gleason, every time I read one of your entries I say to myself, man, how old is this person? If you're up to it, please tell. ALL of your work has been inspired by your dreams....????? That's a heavy duty statement to lay down. No matter how old you are, I love ya like a little brother.

I disagree with the notion that design is a cakewalk compared to other professions. Perhaps it appears that way to you because either (1) you enjoy it, or (2) you don't put enough thought into your work.

Doesn't that rule: once you get comfortable, you're pretty much in trouble, apply all across the board?

...is it true that some of you get these messages via e-mail? if so, how so? And isn't it clunky?

Kevin, 23.

Here's the dream that led me astray (excerpted from some earlier writing on "neomodernism"):

"A little Tibetan lama stood before me, smiling. He was just a boy, maybe five years old, but his eyes sparkled with both wisdom and compassion. I had to know his secret.

�Tell me what you know,’ I said. But he laughed at me and ran away, as if to say, �I’m only a little boy!’ I watched my young teacher tell fantastic stories to the plants and insects as he played. His bald head peeked out from the pile of maroon and saffron robes that I knew he would quickly grow into. In his presence, the small yard became a wonderland. I had never seen anything so beautiful, and couldn’t help but smile. My heart exploded into happiness as I recognized the holiness of his mind.

The boy seemed to sense my elation and smiled back at me again. Our eyes made contact, and I pleaded with him. �Come here, look. Every time I see a child, I get a sense that it knows something about me. That it knows something I don’t, or something that I’ve forgotten. But you, you’re different. I know you know. Please, tell me! What is your secret?’

His expression grew serious for a moment as he investigated my soul. Then he smiled again. �Read the Mulamadhyamakakarika!!’ he

shouted. And off he went.

That was a dream. I won’t say it was some mystical encounter, but dreams are one of many ways that subconscious intuitions can manifest themselves. It’s possible that I’d heard of the book before. In any case, I now had a strong feeling that finding this book would become a very significant event in my life. The next day I ordered a translation from Amazon.com. When it arrived at my house, it seemed to carry with it that little boy’s glow.

�Mulamadhyamakakarika’ in Sanskrit roughly translates as �The Great Book of the Middle Way’. It was written by an Indian Buddhist saint named Nagarjuna in the second century. Madhyamaka is a philosophical system dedicated to revealing a �middle way’ between the extremes of absolutism and relativism. As I studied the text, I began to see that western philosophy was slowly, but perhaps more meticulously, playing out the same issues. In fact, much 20th century occidental thought was coming close to similar realizations as those of Nagarjuna, seeking a resolution of the dichotomy between the absolute and the relative, the objective and the subjective.

It became clear to me that this fundamental philosophical issue was pertinent and timely. It was something that I could dedicate my entire life to, and it wasn’t just an obscure Buddhist concept. "

And, in fact, I took this dream as a calling, and the similarities between nagarjuna and people like Derrida made it very easy for me to access the modernism/postmodernism debate in design. For the last 1 1/2 to 2 years since then, I have been in a continuous state of "flow" and constant discovery.

"Graphic design has its requirements too. It seems like an easy job"

Can I have a few of your projects/clients?

Because I have rarely EVER experienced anything that I would label easy. Maybe making a 20% markup on a $60,000 print job was easy. Thats about as close as I get. :)

Hildebrant.

Tom,

Oh, ok....now you're sounding a bit more lucid.

My Bottom Line:

Yes, more time working equals more productivity

But, more sleep and rest equals more overall happiness