I assume pro-war, pro-action, or pro-troop posters are not invited to participate?

Yes they are. I guess it just happens that most people are against. That's why the title of this entry is Anti/Pro, to not discourage anyone from participating.

Gotcha. Most are against, that's why I asked.

Kiran,

I've been desperately trying to get some "support our troops" type of posters, but to no avail. I might do one myself just to get people talking.

It's funny, on the design forum that this project initiated on, I think there is a palpable fear to support one's government because it is so en vogue to protest the governments foreign policies. Also, when someone posts anything that is remotely pro-government they immediately get flamed by 40 posts calling them idiots. That's what I was trying to curtail - the mean spirited name calling and knee jerk responses.

I am not trying to change anything with these posters, I think that would be na�ve. All I would like is to refocus some people’s energies from negative whinging about war into more constructive applications. And if they would further discussions built around the ideas behind some of the posters, all the better.

Corey said...

I think there is a palpable fear to support one's government because it is so en vogue to protest the governments foreign policies. Also, when someone posts anything that is remotely pro-government they immediately get flamed by 40 posts calling them idiots.

it really is strange how homogenous creative-types of all forms can be when it comes to these issues. the thing that really puzzles me is the fact that the polls have shown overwhelming support for the war in the US and a rather heavy percentage abroad as well; yet the design community seems to be united against it (judging by my humble observations of on-line activity). is this dichotomy real, or am I just hearing the comments of some very active antagonists?

Corey I really appreciate your attitude toward the whole thing; we need more open-minded forums when it comes to political design. I haven't yet been to your site, but I will definitely check it out. hopefully, I'll find some time to make a contribution of my own.

After seeing this last week, I too wondered if every designer was against action.

While reading an anti-war rant on Typographica, I followed a link to this poster.

So far it's the only "pro" poster I have seen. I agree with the above posts, and I too have longed for an outlet that you have created Corey. It's difficult to discuss and share one's opinion with people that let their emotions spew unintelligent replies such calling people idiots. These are the same people that call Bush an idiot, disrupt traffic, and ridicule troops for standing up for their very right to say and do such things. But I digress...

Yes Corey, great attitude. I hope to contribute as well. I just hope it turns out as good as this.

By the way, what are the submission specifications? Where does one send submissions?

There are some nice, peaceful, 100 pixel squares over at Typophile.

>Yes Corey, great attitude. I hope to contribute as well. I just hope it turns out as good as this.

Yeah, that Mr. Vitt is awesome ; )

Thanks Kiran. Glad you liked it. Nothing like a Xerox machine for inspiration.

Initially there was no submission requirements (since the whole thing was done off the cuff), but I was trying to conform to 427x640 pixels for screen and 10x15 @ 150 dpi for print.

Please feel free to submit a poster to yes@adamfaja.com or you could email them to me and I will forward them to Adam.

Adam is the person that designed and is running the online gallery. There will be a mission statement added, a submit link and a UI overhaul this evening. He designed and programmed this thing over a VERY short period of time and we're still hammering out the kinks.

I'll never live down the extra 't'.

Interesting to see Craig Fraizer's American Flag/Shopping Bag artwork switched from a pro-America 9.11 poster to an anti-war-in-Iraq poster. He isn't credited for the anti-war artwork. Anyone know if this is his work?

>I'll never live down the extra 't'.

Just messin' with you. No biggie. I've had worst, of which Arman is by far the possible worst.

>and a UI overhaul this evening.

If you truly want to make this a website for both camps (anti/pro), how about a UI that reflects a diplomatic and democratic stance? No scratchy type, no dark background, etc.

the thing that really puzzles me is the fact that the polls have shown overwhelming support for the war in the US

You do realize polls are the work of the devil? ;o)

What I find irritating is that people make it a pro/anti thing. It's certainly not a black and white issue (and note that you can certainly be vehemently anti-war and still support the troops.)

Ugh. There I go making this a political discussion. Sorry.

"It's certainly not a black and white issue"

That's my problem, I don't really know how I feel about this whole thing. For every point, there is a valid counterpoint. I found that by just making something, it helped crystallize my nascent political ideology. I have never been interested in politics (never voted, never watched the news) and found myself inextricably drawn into this debate. This is the first conflict the US has been involved in that I know enough of what lead up to this to be thoroughly confused. When I was younger it was easy to make a judgement because it was completely subjective, I based it on how I felt about the issue without having any knowledge about it. This is the first time I've had enough information to begin to form a real opinion. It's quite an awakening.

But I'm just as confused as when I started - I think that's why my posters express this weird logic that is applied to world politics and foreign policies. I just don't get it.

In the ANTIWAR poster that resembles Craig Fraizer's artwork there�s a line of text at the bottom of the downloadable PDF:"WITH APOLOGIES TO CRAIG FRAZIER" so I supposse this is not from Craig...

Great initiative Corey. Some very beautiful posters up there, especially Armin's. : )

Sorry to jump in here so late. My stand is clearly anti-war for a number of reasons that this probably isn't the best place to get into. However if anybody's interested in anti-war resources I've thrown up a splash page with a whole lot of interesting links. Being a Canadian, I'd be interested in reaction from Americans(especially creative types).

On a side note, I posted my page on allmaple.com only to have the post removed. I spoke with the admin, and agreed that maybe it wasn't the best place for it. It didn't bother me then, but what is the responsibility of a designer to express, graphically, their own opinions? Big question, I know, but an important one I think.

Again, great work Corey.

PS. please don't erase this post Armin! : )

And if it is possible, I do support your troops, just not your government. Bring 'em home alive as quickly as possible.

How strange - that is the second "Bush bleeding from the mouth" design I've seen today. The other one is at http://www.stereotypography.com/other/bushblood.gif

I noticed quite a few posters that used McDonalds as a metaphor for American exporting capitalism. Which was not something I had really thought about before (having never left North America). After speaking to a couple Europeans about it, they had expressed anger at the way McDonalds refuses to participate in the culture it is planted in. It has it's own American menu, and is the same red and yellow box, regardless of the surrounding architecture or history of the locale. It makes perfect sense as a metaphor, but having not been exposed to that culture I couldn't understand the intricacies of using it that way.

Is there a deeper meaning behind having the president bleed from the mouth beyond the visceral "no blood for oil" motif. or did I miss it altogether?

You know it is funny, I broke out a poster book I had not looked thru in a while and flipped though it to find war reference posters from WWI / WWII (hoping maybe to scan and post some) and it was interesting to see so few anti-war posters. Not shocking, I mean I am sure all of us think of the "I WANT YOU" poster and the many War Bond poster and some of the great Anti-Hitler posters from that era, I guess over the course of my 28 years I have grown accustom to the Anti-War/Protest being the slogan of choice for anything artisin. Different world, different art I guess, though I'm sure there is a deeper explanation from which ever side you are on, I am not the oine to make it.

I'd imagine the blood from the mouth alludes to "Blood Thirsty". (refraining from comment)

After speaking to a couple Europeans about it, they had expressed anger at the way McDonalds refuses to participate in the culture it is planted in. It has it's own American menu, and is the same red and yellow box, regardless of the surrounding architecture or history of the locale

I've actually seen a couple of McDonalds restaurants that have tried to blend into the local surroundings here in Montréal and Québec City, going as far as replacing their red and yellow with green and brown. It bothered me more as it seemed somehow disingenious not to mention the fact that they replaced local family restaurants/cafés.

Is there a deeper meaning behind having the president bleed from the mouth beyond the visceral "no blood for oil" motif.

No, not really. I have a particular hatred for American foreign policy, especially the current administration's. To me, its simply 'sanctioned' (not by the UN) murder. Hence the blood. imho.

I broke out a poster book I had not looked thru in a while and flipped though it to find war reference posters from WWI / WWII (hoping maybe to scan and post some) and it was interesting to see so few anti-war posters.

I had the chance to pick up the AIGA Graphic Design USA2 annaual (from 1981) for 4 bucks(canadian) at a used book store. There is a whole section on Political Art(mainly illustration) which is beautiful and inspirational. Most are editorial illustrations but there are a fair share of posters too. What's even more amazing/sad is that most of them could be used again today with little or no modification and still be relevant and poignant. I'll scan and post when I have some time.

>Being a Canadian, I'd be interested in reaction from Americans (especially creative types).

Visually it is captivating. The music is emotional. The message however, I disagree with.

Why not post a splash page demanding that Saddam Hussein disarm? I don't see any sites sprouting to aid the Democratic party gather strength for the 2004 election? How about a site denouncing the 1993 cruise missle strikes on Iraq authorized by President Clinton, which killed nine civilians? How about a site showing the real Europe - the drooling Chirac over France's $68 billion in Iraqi oil deals, Schr�der winning office on an anti-war platform, and Putin wanting his $8 billion in loans repaid, not to mention Russia's own oil interests.

In my opinion much of the anti-war or anti-war/support the troops position is negative, unconstructive, inconsistent, and most people involved enjoy hopping on the easy "Bush isn't hip bandwagon" until the next fad comes along.

Defacing the President's face whether one agrees or disagrees with his cabinet's policy is the same as Saddam using propaganda to rule his people with an iron-first for 30 years.

War is bad but tyranny is worse.

Defacing the President's face whether one agrees or disagrees with his cabinet's policy is the same as Saddam using propaganda to rule his people with an iron-first for 30 years.

Which is the same as the propaganda coming out of the current (and past, to be fair) US administrations.

(and remember, for part of those 30 years, the US HELPED Saddam rule with an iron fist...who do you think gave them their biological weapons?)

Dammit. There I go again.

>Which is the same as the propaganda coming out of the current (and past, to be fair) US administrations.

And every administration and/or private citezen who ever stood up for what they believe in. Get over it.

>(and remember, for part of those 30 years, the US HELPED Saddam rule with an iron fist...who do you think gave them their biological weapons?

That is simply not true, it is a popular small world, only the US is bad myth. This one grew over time, but when Iraq was on its weapons spending spree from 1972 (when its oil revenue quadrupled) to 1990, the purchases were quite public and listed over $40 billion worth of arms sales. Russia was the largest supplier, with $25 billion. The US was the smallest, with $200,000. A similar myth, that the U.S. provided Iraq with chemical and biological weapons is equally off base. Iraq requested Anthrax samples from the US government, as do nations the world over, for the purpose of developing animal and human vaccines for local versions of Anthrax. Nerve gas doesn't require technical help, it's a variant of common insecticides. European nations sold Iraq the equipment to make poison gas.

Myths about the war in Iraq

Most of us here in Europe are tired of seeing the USA pretending to be masters of the Universe. To ignore the majority of the UN shows a total lack of respect and really makes me mad. And when Bush looks into the camera and says "we are the finest people" then it just makes us sad. People who put themselves over others have big problem.

Ok people. No politics discussed here. I'm sorry. This is not a political forum. I have two rules, personally, never discuss politics or religion. Let's keep this focused on graphic designers and creative people using their skills to expresss what they feel about the war. We like to hear what you have to say about the situation, but I have to admit that this is not the place to do it.

>PS. please don't erase this post Armin!

I won't. You can say whatever you please on your own site.

amen, brother. oh crap! is that discussing religion? what is the role of religion in obscure graphic design forumns?! oh god! crap, there's another reference!

as designers we have the tools, the power, and the responsibility to be cultural critics. whatever side you are on, SPEAK UP. just be respectful to everyone. seriously.

Good points Anthony, interesting link.

Agreed Armin, my comment was responding to Kevin's question in terms of "people using their skills to express what they feel about the war." I look forward to Corey's initiative doing just that.

It seems that the whole nature of propaganda posters has changed since their heyday. In previous wars they were used to spread the opinions of various governments and independent artists. Now, public opinion is swayed so heavily by the "up to the minute" comings and goings of the modern media, posters are looked upon as slow, luxurious works of art instead of a valid expression of opinion. This also somewhat explains the reason why we have such major swings in daily "Support the War?" gallop polls. Though unfortunate... in this world of T1 internet connections, fast food and 2 week wars, we as designers and artists are thought of as the information machine that has gone the "way of the buffalo".

I have milled the idea around in my head quite frequently though. Being in the Pro-Bush / Anti-Sadam camp... I am rather frustrated with ALL designers being labeled as "left of center". Though I respect the opinions of all, I agree that we need another dimension to the "modern artists" public profile.

Thanks for the link Anthony. More info is always good.

> I have two rules, personally, never discuss politics or religion.

I agree that we shouldn't veer off into politics here, but do be careful about never discussing politics or religion. The fact that we don't regularly and openly discuss these topics amongst ourselves is a big problem in this country.

Actually, Brook said that much more eloquently than I did. ;o)

Oh, anthony, it wasn't hard to find an article that, while doesn't invalidate the other article, adds a different POV:

See point 15

(Just to balance the info)

> The fact that we don't regularly and openly discuss these topics amongst ourselves is a big problem in this country.

I don't care enough about politics, so I don't know much to defend any of my points, that's the main reason for that. Religion... you know, people are all touchy-feely. I'd rather make senseless blabber about the weather.

>I agree that we shouldn't veer off into politics here, but do be careful about never discussing politics or religion. The fact that we don't regularly and openly discuss these topics amongst ourselves is a big problem in this country.

I completely agree. If we don't pursue the facts and acknowledge the difference in thought (even if touchy) then this conversation is a non sequitur. I know that this is a "design" forum yet if the subject is touched on then open discussion of differences is important to reaching a logical conclusion. It seems that Mr. Glaser and Co. are allowed to make such comments (even if it is abrasive to a large part of our general population). So why can we not grab this site by the namesake and "Speak Up" on the core of why Pro/Anti War poster art is at an all-time low?

I do know where you are coming from Armin and I don't want to start a disagreement. Yet a political discussion is integral to this topic.

I'm the last one to say "you can't say this or that," what I can say, for this particular post, is that I don't want it to end up like this one on Typographica.

>So why can we not grab this site by the namesake and "Speak Up" on the core of why Pro/Anti War poster art is at an all-time low?

We can, and that's how the discussion started and hasn't veered off topic much. But I can see it starting to snowball into a political rant.

>Yet a political discussion is integral to this topic.

Yes, if it adds to what we are talking about. Again, we haven't veered off in this direction enough. I just don't want it to happen.

I didn't mean to be all censorshippy and stuff. But you know... just keeping the thread on track.

the onion

> I don't care enough about politics

Please do! ;o)

>Just messin' with you. No biggie. I've had worst, of which Arman is by far the possible worst.

Guess you wouldn't complain had it been Armani!!!!

(just joking of course)

Perhaps we could have some Iraqi designers submit their Pro/Anti War poster opinions just before they have their tongues cut out and stapled to their chest or they watch their children shot in the head because their opinion might be different from their governments.

> And when Bush looks into the camera and says "we are the finest people" then it just makes us sad. People who put themselves over others have big problem.

If you mean giving more financial, food relief, medical assistance, and freedom fighting aid than any other country in the world and allowing free speech about Pro vs. Anti War posters in an online debate... guilty!

This is a good thing Corey. I hope to be able to contribute soon.

Right on Tom!

Not iraq, but... very cool stuff

> "If you truly want to make this a website for both camps (anti/pro), how about a UI that reflects a diplomatic and democratic stance? No scratchy type, no dark background, etc."

Whether you are pro or anti, I think we can all agree that war is a messy, chaotic and devastating business with a dark background... I don't find it inappropriate to display messages about either side of the issue in a context that betrays the realities of war.

Props for that comment Tom. Does anyone in Europe remember the Marshall Plan? Guess not.

I am in favor of doing a massive "Mac" airdrop over Baghdad once the country is liberated. Anyone with me? Get some good Iraqi studios up and running.

Tom/Corey:

You both have good points, but realize that there is a lot of grey area in between your two perspectives ;o)

Our common enemy should be war by itself... war between two countries, inside a classroom, within a family or among ourselves. Creating something using contradictions and opposites are the very base of creative thinking so any fanatical or one-sided stance denies by itself the very openness of our daily work.

salut!

Found this link off of suicidegirls, better late than never.

http://war.miniaturegigantic.com/gallery1.html

Uncensored political discussion board needs some more liberal members to oppose the invasion of American neo-cons:

Students for democracy

hey everyone. just wondering if someone could point me in the direction of some anti-liberal WWII posters? (obviously the ones made recently). i have seen a bunch of them and now that im actually looking for them i can never find any. thanks!!

ace_of_spades